Wisconsin Pond Build

herzausstahl

herzausstahl
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Hi Herz, That looks like a lot of work and not easy with a screaming 3 1/2 year old. I have a stupid question. Why didn't you just bury liner underneath the rocks of the top pool so water doesn't leak out? My whole waterfall is built on top of liner.

LOL, actually Keith she is worse, she isn't the screaming kind, she's the kind who wants to help or throw the rocks in the pond. Usually isn't a problem, just when using the waterfall foam and I don't want her to get it on her hands. :) If you check back in the thread the liner is connected to the stream liner and goes all the way under, the problem I did is that I made the opening to low in relation to the sides of the pool so I end up with a good half foot of open area above the water line. I always wanted to make the upper pool fuller. It should work, the only downside is that I underestimated how much foam I put under those rocks on the bottom, plus I believe that I used scrap liner under them even though I didn't need too. But that is the one area that I will tear apart if necessary to fix because I want the water level in there to be higher up.

I think Herz does have liner under all of that. The problem is that he wants the water to back up behind the rock, then go over the rocks, but it keeps going under or to the side of the rocks. I had the same problem when I redid my waterfall. Mine was easier, though, since the water fell from one to the next, and most of the water stayed on top to the next rock. But, I like how you're doing this, Herz, very neat idea. The stream I'm building will simply have flat flagstone rocks laying on the bottom of it, and the water will run over them however it pleases. :) Probably shouldn't have looked at this thread, because now I have other ideas ....

You nailed it Patti. The biggest problem is that it slowly leaks out those two large rocks that the big one sits on. I could live with the rest of the falls slowly leaking because it wouldn't matter when the pump was running (although I would like to retain water in the stream between them if possible), but I do want the upper pool to be fuller. My two biggest problems were being lazy/in a hurry and not removing all the small rocks in the stream bed at each falls site and using the waterfall foam when it was too cold out. But at least it is cheap and I know I can rip it out to start over if need be, but I'll see what happens. For all I know I could rethink the two upper parts once the weather is warm enough to use the foam.


Here is the other project/feature I referenced earlier. It is done except for the pump. I want to get a Laguna Max Flow 600 or 900 to run it, still debating about how much flow I want. Figure it has about 7-8' of 1" tubing to go through and about 18" to 2' in elevation difference so roughly a 3' head to be on the conservative side. The pump will go in the upper pool.

Here is the build process:

DSC05851.JPGDSC05852.JPGDSC05853.JPG

I used the blocks to give myself a level higher elevation for the larger rocks in the feature. I also packed the dirt into the gaps and pressed it down. Then I put the geotextile underlay on top followed by the joined liner.

DSC05854.JPG

Here I began placing the rocks. I know its hard to see in the photo, but these are too heavy to lift so I rolled them all into place. The second tier one I leveraged up on the blocks and then shimmied over into place, although at one point I did manage to lift it to move it a couple of inches I believe.

DSC05855.JPGDSC05857.JPGDSC05858.JPGDSC05859.JPG

I also rolled up the liner edges so any splash would fall into the liner and run down to the pool, although I covered this up later so it really might not do anything. I sealed under all the rocks and in the gaps with waterfall foam (when it was 70 degrees out so it worked like a charm).

DSC05865.JPGDSC05866.JPG

Then today I finished the whole thing with plantings. All is in place but the pump:

DSC05945.JPGDSC05946.JPG

I added small stones in the middle. In the next pic you can see the tubing running in.

DSC05947.JPG

The tubing is buried until it pops out well below the water line in the pool. In winter I will disconnect and remove the pump and possibly try to cap the end of the line or move the end of the line above water and blow it out with a compressor and then cap it.

DSC05948.JPG

I didn't like the hose showing so I found a way to wedge some rocks infront of it.

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Here is the back of the feature. I put in stepping stones so I (or anyone) can walk around it to the back side of the garden. In fact I will have to update the path to reflect this change now that I think about it.

DSC05953.JPGDSC05954.JPG

So once I get the top of the stream opening from the pool situated, settle on a pump and save the $ to buy it I will get this up and running. This will also be the only feature I have to run an extension cord for but considering the low energy usage of the pumps I am considering (the 900 only uses 65 watts and .57 Amps) I'm not worried about it.
 
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Herz, That's great you get to spend a lot of time with your daughter. When my daughter was little we were together a lot. That was why she wanted to be an architect because I was building and helping to design homes. Your daughter will probably want to be a marine biologist! Fortunately my daughter decided recently on doing something more sensible in college so she can get a job when she graduates. Time flies but you will not look back and wonder how they got big so fast when you have spent quality time together. Sorry I don't have any more suggestions for your raised pool. I have read most your thread but not all of it. You have obviously given it a lot of thought already.
 

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Love those rocks! A ton of work but sure is great. Cute little helper you have.
 
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That looks absolutely great, Herz!!! Loved all the pics, and OMG, those are some huge rocks! I keep saying, "Only what I can lift and move myself", so I don't have any "boulders" around my pond. Have a tractor, but prefer to be able to move them myself. Maybe someday I'll get a "conversation piece" boulder. LOL
And, I love love LOVE the fact that not only is your daughter allowed to help, but get dirty and she has her own pink tools. How cool is that! I totally agree with Keith, you will never regret her growing up years, knowing that she was with you a lot! She will cherish them as well.
 

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Enjoyed looking at all your pix herz one by one and suspense was building w/ each viewing and every little tweak you added to fix something to your liking and I could see where you were going w/ it all and couldn't wait till the pictures would come to show the water gushing out of that hidden tubing............................and then BOOM! you ran out of money and I couldn't see the grand finally..............darn! I think we all need to take up a collection so you can get that darn pump put in so we can see it all running in it's awesome splendor,lol!
Maybe your cute little helper has some money tucked away in her piggy bank :rolleyes:
 

herzausstahl

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Herz, That's great you get to spend a lot of time with your daughter. When my daughter was little we were together a lot. That was why she wanted to be an architect because I was building and helping to design homes. Your daughter will probably want to be a marine biologist! Fortunately my daughter decided recently on doing something more sensible in college so she can get a job when she graduates. Time flies but you will not look back and wonder how they got big so fast when you have spent quality time together. Sorry I don't have any more suggestions for your raised pool. I have read most your thread but not all of it. You have obviously given it a lot of thought already.

Thanks Keith, I could see her wanting to do something with nature eventually, but lots of time for her to change her mind. I work at my family's restaurant so it gives me a varied schedule, but it also allows me to spend time with my daughter which is always fun. And yeah, unless its a spontaneous easy build, I plan it out a lot as I do it or before I begin so I can avoid as many problems as possible. Plus it helps the more I do it to know what could come up.

Love those rocks! A ton of work but sure is great. Cute little helper you have.

Thanks Addy! I am planning on some point taking pictures of all the cool rocks I have been able to collect and post them on here. And she is even more adorable in person, thank you!

That looks absolutely great, Herz!!! Loved all the pics, and OMG, those are some huge rocks! I keep saying, "Only what I can lift and move myself", so I don't have any "boulders" around my pond. Have a tractor, but prefer to be able to move them myself. Maybe someday I'll get a "conversation piece" boulder. LOL
And, I love love LOVE the fact that not only is your daughter allowed to help, but get dirty and she has her own pink tools. How cool is that! I totally agree with Keith, you will never regret her growing up years, knowing that she was with you a lot! She will cherish them as well.

I have no tractor so its only what I can lift and haul on my own. My daughter is definitly allowed to help because thats how I get to be out there and work on it. :) And I really don't care if she gets dirty, part of being a kid as far as I'm concerned.

Enjoyed looking at all your pix herz one by one and suspense was building w/ each viewing and every little tweak you added to fix something to your liking and I could see where you were going w/ it all and couldn't wait till the pictures would come to show the water gushing out of that hidden tubing............................and then BOOM! you ran out of money and I couldn't see the grand finally..............darn! I think we all need to take up a collection so you can get that darn pump put in so we can see it all running in it's awesome splendor,lol!
Maybe your cute little helper has some money tucked away in her piggy bank :rolleyes:

Lol JW, I have to fix the top part of that (the falls with the really long rock) before I can start this up anyway. But once the weather gets warmer I will be right on it. I found Great Stuff waterfall foam at a new Menards they just built for only $7.47 a can and picked up 4 right away. Couldn't pass it up, so once its warmer I am going to tackle the falls.
 

herzausstahl

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I have been busy and haven't had a chance to post all my pictures of my progress, but ran into a problem, solution one has failed, I had another solution in mind, but may have found a new solution. I added the four waterfalls in the stream and got more waterfall foam and added it to each one. I also added a lot of foam to plug the holes in the dam at the beginning of the stream (circled in the picture below), I put the hose in the upper pool and it filled the upper pool and above each waterfall, but somewhere there were still little leaks, because it all leaked out over night. So it will work when the stream pump is running, but will drain out at night when it shuts off. I am prepared to live with that for the waterfalls in the stream (pics coming) because I can raise the pond edges a little bit so it won't matter and the water level will be acceptable to me when the stream is running. But I really want to waterproof the dam so the upper pool water level remains high all the time for appearance (which it will when the stream is running if the hose was able to keep it full enough to overflow and fill the stream waterfalls with water, so I must really have slow leaks, but not sure how slow because I filled it and left, then checked it the next morning and it had all drained down). I also want to waterproof the dam more for the new gorge like feature I built at the top of the upper pool, so that the pump that runs that sits in more than 14" or so of water.

So here is the problem area:

DSC05945.JPG

Pulling most of the rocks and adding more waterfall foam around any water entry surface on the backside that is pictured (thought it would stick to rocks and liner to act as a waterproof barrier) did not work. My next idea was to remove all the rocks around the area that were not foamed and then to cut a 2nd piece of liner to lay over the rocks and then tape it to the existing liner to create a barrier that way, tricky to explain, but clear in my mind if that makes sense. Might or might not have worked, but then I found Mightly Sealer (http://www.mightysealer.com/Default.asp?bhcp=1) listed in the Menards ad ($2.99 after $5 mail in rebate, so cost not bad if it fails), but my question is, has anyone tried this to fix any leaks and have you had success with it? I would spray it over any gaps that could be responsible for leaks around the rocks and figure the surface would algaeify making it look natural and see if it solves my problem. Thanks for any feedback!
 

taherrmann4

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What about making your dam out of cement then seal it? You could also put rocks into the cement before it dries. Would this work in your case?
 
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I know this may sound silly, but do you have a one-way valve between your pump and the upper pond? If not, when you shut it off, it may be simply siphoning the water back into the pond. If I shut off my bog, which is run by the skimmer, and leave everything hooked up, just shut off the power, my bog will drain down to the level of where the pipe goes into the skimmer which is about 6" lower than the pond level. In other words, it drains most of the water. I wonder if that is what is happening. If you have a one way valve in (obviously I don't, and should!) then that's not your problem. Good luck with sealing it!
 

herzausstahl

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What about making your dam out of cement then seal it? You could also put rocks into the cement before it dries. Would this work in your case?

It would, but I'm not the best at working with cement and I already added a bunch of waterfall foam between the rocks that would make it a real pain to rip all out, enough trying to plug the leaks from the back side that they are there to stay. :) Does anyone know if the waterfall foam is permeable? Will it absorb water and allow it to pass through, almost need to refill it and see where it leaks from, mostly got the idea for the Mighty Sealer by seeing it in the ad, plus if it didn't work, would only be out about $10 so not too bad.

I know this may sound silly, but do you have a one-way valve between your pump and the upper pond? If not, when you shut it off, it may be simply siphoning the water back into the pond. If I shut off my bog, which is run by the skimmer, and leave everything hooked up, just shut off the power, my bog will drain down to the level of where the pipe goes into the skimmer which is about 6" lower than the pond level. In other words, it drains most of the water. I wonder if that is what is happening. If you have a one way valve in (obviously I don't, and should!) then that's not your problem. Good luck with sealing it!

I have a oneway valve on it, and I also have a stopper that I made from PVC that screws into the outlet pipe in the upper pool. If it was draining there, the water level would be about a foot lower. I also built another outlet from PVC that I can screw into the outlet pipe that has one way sump pump valves on the ends. That way when the pump runs during the day will let water into the upper pool, but when it shuts off, the valves will close to prevent it from siphoning down to the lower pond. My guess is despite all the waterfall foam I used to try to seel it, there is still a gap/small hole somewhere in the process, which is why if the Mighty Sealer works half as good as advertised, it should do the trick to plug it up and be easier than my second idea. At any rate, everyone sit back, grab some popcorn and enjoy watching me stubbornly try to fix this even though it could probably be just fine the way it is. :) Same thing happened at the gym tonight, jumped on an eliptical machine, that would flash a weird message (error of some kind, even though it didn't say the word "error" in it) and I stayed on it for 5 minutes trying to get it to work before switching machines.
 

addy1

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Herz

Waterfall is permeable it directs the water, does not seal. The water will just seep out over time. The black pl roofing goop, if you could smear it over the areas that are leaking would seal it.

There are other silicones that will work also. Have never used the spray on stuff so no clue on how well it would work for you.
 

herzausstahl

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Thanks addy,
I think I will try the spray on stuff and if that fails will go the route you suggested because it will be easier than trying to tape/glue a liner over the area (by connecting it to the existing liner and then letting the top rest against the rocks and weighing it down with rocks, sounds confusing, but might work, but probably very hard to do just right). That is a good idea though, thank you. Have you ever done it? Is there any way to that makes it easy to smear it?

Nathan
 

addy1

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I put on latex gloves, find the leaking weeping areas and goop it on. let it dry well, turn the pond back on, look for any more problem areas,......................repeat lol
 

sissy

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herz your going to make that daughter into one strong independent women and no harm in that .I turned out alright (well I think so ) some people will debate that .But then again I don't value there opinion very well ,unless there joking LOL :LOL: IF THERE NOT LOOK OUT :yikesu:
 

taherrmann4

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What about something like spray on rubber? I used something like this twenty years ago on the floor boards of an old car.
 

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