I agree Mogsie, lets just change the subject, I dont want you to think I'm trying to demean you or your beliefs, your gun beliefs and mine are too far apart to ever be bridged, part of that is our Countries different Histories and Heritages and part is our own personnel upbringing and basic personnal beliefs I believe God and Religon is entertwined all through society and think thats a good thing and you have stated that your a non-believer---theres nothing wrong with that in my opinion, Ive always been--- A live and let live type of guy--- and believe a man has to walk the path of his choosing but evan though I think theres nothing wrong with it, I just cant Relate--just as I know that you cant relate to mine, so we will just have to agree to disagree on the Gun and Religeon Issue and relate to whats important on this website--Ponds and Nature. Thanks for the interaction though, it was fun and stimulating for me to solidify my thoughts on Gun Control , Religon, and Society, Tim K.