The Good Banter Thread

[callingcolleen1]

it is late now and i need to go to bed so i will read all the long replies tomorow, but in rnothing in betweenegard of this colleen, i live in uk and yes crime levels did rise for a while but they are now falling again but that is NOT gun crime ! and the only armed police in this country are armed response units ! as for the remark "worst school shooting until last week ! ??? eh have you never heard of the beslan school hostage crisis !rie

yes I did watch with horror the events of the Beslan School shooting, and it was a very well organized terrorist attack. These types of school shooting are different, they are usually commited by a single lone and usually shy individual, with few friends. They are random and can happen anywhere. It is sad when it happens, and it would not have happened if there were no guns ever made. That would be nice, no guns, no war? But there was war before guns, before arrows, Cain killed able with a stone I believe. But guns were made and everybody has them now for protection. We can't go back, only forward. We have to deal with the situation we now have facing us, The road ahead will be long and hard, and the gun debates will continue, in the mean time let us protect the children with the right level of protection required at this time. Take the guns from everybody or no body?

I am tired too, going to rest and dream about those fields of clover CE jumped in .....

 

[capewind]

If the proposal is to take guns away from all, let's not forget the story of the little boy who took his father's gun (who was a police officer) and killed a little girl... So the police need to give up their weapons too...

 

[j.w]

My husband and I were sitting in the Dr's office today looking around discussing which way we would run if some insane gun wielding psychopath charged in the front doors of the clinic. What kind of world has this become where we have to think about these kinds of things?
The problem I believe is mental illness as someone mentioned earlier. Taking guns away from the majority of sane people will not help. The insane will kill w/ whatever they can get their hands on if they feel the need to do so. In August of this year a Chinese kid of 17 killed 8 people and wounded 5 others w/ a knife. If someone there had had a gun they could have stopped him dead in his tracks. We need to get back to God and teach our kids what's right and wrong and not let them be taught by the gov't that they are right and parents have no rights. Kids can do whatever and say whatever they want w/ hardly any consequences. When I was young we did not talk back to adults and we did as we were told by our parents...............well at least till we got to be teens and the world started caving inside out. It's going down fast and good people w/ guns protecting others who are innocent, young and defenseless is not a bad thing in my opinion. And shows like Sesame street teaching kids from a young age that they are the most important person in the whole wide world is not helping the situation. What happened to love they neighbor and brotherly love and family is priority..................all going down the tubes! Kids w/ no morals, no family relationships, no guidance, left on their own to fix their own dinners, all alone w/ their video games and internet fantasies and then the gov't tells them they can't be touched.................sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. I think we are making our children into mental cases. I don't know if you can fix them either once they go bad. Drugs are not the answer it seems as when they stop taking them cuz it makes them feel horrible then they go back to their unstable mental ways and explode into violence, mayhem and murder. Only one answer............lock them up and let the gov't raise them in an institution. Keep others safe at the cost of their ruined lives. We created them and so we are responsible to keep them away from the outside world. Start raising our children right or don't have them at all. But is it too late for us................I don't know. It would take a major turn in the minds of parents to get things straightened out. They are ours and God's children,we are responsible for their care, not the government!

 

[Fishylove]

I can not remember the last time; with exception of 9/11, my mind has been consumed with thoughts of a tragedy such as this. My heart aches with the thought of those poor children, those poor little babies who, in thier last moments, met with a horror I pray we never see. My baby is six... I can not even fathom the unbearable pain that their parents are going thru and my soul weeps for them. But I know that these 20 beautiful children are with our Heavenly Father at this moment. There is no more fear, no more evil, only love and happiness, safe in Gods arms forever. And I pray that their parents and families are comforted in this fact.

I think what we (those of us that are willing to fight for the right to bare arms) are trying to get at; besides the fact that I just Dont want to give up my guns; is that Government does Not have the right to take our constitutional rights from us. This is one of the rights that this country was founded on. They have already taken God out of our schools. Are wanting to even take God off of our money and change plaques in our capitals and on monuments! What is next?!? Even our "freedom of speech" isn't free anymore it seems like. This can Not happen!
As smm has explained, I too grew up with guns. And in growing up with Guns and hunting, you learn the proper way to handle them and respect the power of them. I would rabbit hunt with my grandfather, who taught me to respect nature and to value life. I was taught an understanding of what it is to take a life; and the finality of it.
My husband and I are teaching our children these same values. Brayden, our six yr. old, got a bb gun for his birthday, and two weeks ago, went on his first hunting trip ( of course, he was in the tree with his father lol). Morals and values start at home, and it saddens me that not all children have these things taught and instilled in them. But, because these things happen, that should not mean that I don't have the right to defend myself or protect and provide for my family.

 

[koiguy1969]

I may have posted this video before ...but its beautiful. its a christian song of loss, and GOD's promises to those who suffer the loss. the song is actually about the death of a 2 month old baby, and her mother loss....but it applies to anyone whos lost a love one... it applies to all the freinds and family of the victims in this tragedy...

 

[j.w]

I pray God gives those poor suffering families peace and the hope that they can see their sweet babies again.

 

[mogsie]

yes beslan was a differant nature to this but if others are going to drift off topic to support their views then so will i, after all i am just exercising my rights to an opinion the same as others have a right to express theirs be it pro guns or anti, or did this forum turn communist at some point while i was away ??
sheetmetalman i also live in the country, i was braught up on a farm and i do understand what you are saying about hunting, but you cannot deny that gun restictions are needed, i only have to flick through the channels on tv and i will find some documentary "sons of guns" etc all about some american family and their ever growing collection of weapons, the guy has an arsenal that the taliban would be proud of, and his teenage daughter prob has several semi automatic assault riffles, and his teenage son has a few carbines and he has just got a new light machine gun etc etc, and it just goes on and on ! why do they need that collection of guns ? surely the more commonplace something is the more likelyhood there is of problems arising from it and you dont need a degree in history or social science to realise that just common sense. you say that these type of killing has only occured in the last 30 yrs, but there has been serial killers throughout history, maybe it is just that gun killing of this type has increased in the last 30 yrs due to guns becoming more easily accessable and coupled with cultural and psychological changes within society, i dont know, i also read the term "GOD GIVEN RIGHT" is it ? surely it is just a right that was writen and adopted by previous governments ! and back to that word "GOD" i have read a few times in recent posts regarding the presence of god, it paints a rather ironic image in my mind of somebody standing there with their holy bible in one hand and their gun in the other ! or do you not see that irony ? here in uk gun crime is slowly on the increase, but alot of this is down to the rise in gang culture and partly responsible to these rappers who sing about guns and drugs and shooting people, i would have them banned of the airwaves. but in relation how many drive by shootings and drug related shootings do you have in america ? and you say you dont have a problem with gun culture ??
anyways a sensible mature debate is good, but if some may find it too personnel, or that my anti gun views offend them, then maybe it would be best to change subject to something on a more lighter note.

 

[mogsie]

hey ive only just noticed that all this time my profile has me down as 17 years old !!! wow wish i felt 17 again !!

 

[Sheetmetalman]

Not Ironic at all Mogsie, For better or worse thats America History. I guarantee every colonist that stepped off those ships in the New World that became America carried a Gun AND a Bible and as the years went by and they fought their way to dominance from coast to coast they had a Gun and a Bible. Our problem today is we still have the Gun but so many have forgot the Bible. I'm sorry if you dont understand where I'm comming from but you wont change me and I can see I wont change you ( and frankly I'm not trying to) your culture is yours and mine is mine--I only care about America and its future on this subject--nothing against the U.K. or the rest of the World but this is my home and I have a vested interest in keeping the best parts of our heritage and changing the worst. When I say God Given, I am saying exactly what this countrys for-fathers were saying as they placed that term into the Declaration of Independence and the constitution-- I dont mean God reached down and handed the right to a gun on a tablet. What they were trying to say is America's people have certain Rights given them when they are born--the rights of any free people and those Natural Rights are NOT to be infringed by our Government. #1The right to practice your religon, and the right to a free press and of the Individual to say what you want, EVEN to critize said government, #2 the right to keep and bear arms. Those are the first 2 Amendments to the Constitution in the Bill of Rights and they are first and second for a Reason--Thomas Jefferson and the others who started our Government had already lived under the Boot of one Tyranical Government and were determined to fashion safegaurds into ours to Protect "WE THE PEOPLE". Jefferson knew that in order to have a truly free people they had to be able to 1. practice their Religion without Government Interferance 2. have a free press that wouldnt spread government propaganda as it were the truth 3.let the individual alone or as a group stand up and tell the Government that what your doing is WRONG without fear of being put into Jail. 4. And most important of all IF that Government became too Big, Corupt and Tyranical , WE THE PEOPLE had the right of gun ownership to overthrow it. Now you may be Skeptical of that Mogsie but look up famous Quotes about Firearms of Jefferson and George Washington and Alexander Hamilton--3 of this countries founders. Heres 4; #1 Thomas Jefferson " No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves from a tyranical government." #2 George Washington " The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference-they deserve a place of honor with all thats good" #3 Alexander Hamilton " The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed" #4 Thomas Jefferson " When the people fear the government there is tyranny. When the Government fears the people there is Liberty" oh and here's one by the great Science Fiction Writer Robert Heinlein " When only cops have guns its called a POLICE STATE. Love your Country but never trust your Government" I could go on and on with Quotes fron Ben Franklin, Abe Lincoln and others but I'm tired of typing--Put famous quotes about Firearms in a search string if your interested. So to answer your final Question--no I dont have a problem with this Country's Gun Culture--I have a problem with this Countries Moral and Spiritual Rot.

 

[capewind]

Mogsie, it isnt anyone's intent to say your opinion doesnt matter (paraphrasing) in regards to Beslan, only they are not even remotely similar situations. You could remove every legal gun, and it would not have prevented events such as Beslan, Waco, and countless other events caused by extremeists and or terrorists.

JW... I hear you loud and clear. Hubby used to tease me when the kids were babies (aka typical mom LOL), but these were/are things that I always DO think about in one form or another. Now I am not paranoid, nor do I live my life in fear. It has more to do with a respectful upbringing that said I was responsible for ME. When the kids came along, *I* was the one they had to count on. I do NOT mean to minimize ANYTHING my husband did for us (he is an exception husband, father and human being in general), but the fact was he was busy busting his ass for all of us to build a future. There were many times (nights included), when the kids and I would be on our own. Being able to defend yourself is one thing, but when out in the real world with an armload of babies (there is a 4 yr span from our oldest to youngest), you learn to be more observant of your surroundings. It's little things from noting various enterances, lights at night, checking your locked car as you approach, reading body language of strangers... Again, not paranoid, this all falls into the same catagory as when the kids are quiet, you know it isnt good LOL.

 

[mogsie]

look i am not a god believing person but to preach the word of the bible whilst also preaching the gun ?? maybe you should read romans 12:19.
i do not deny your current laws and ammendments nor do i grant myself the right to oppose them, i am not an american citizen, i am just offering my opinion regarding gun ownership. now without going right into politics or religion, but to keep this very simple all i am saying is...... commonplace increases likelyhood, and you cannot deny that, in all respects
the more cars on the road the more likely you will get run over
the more rocks fall from the mountain the more likely one will hit you
the more obstacles in your way the more likely you will trip over one of them
the more guns there are in society the more likely somebody will be killed by one of them.
and that my friend is just plain old common sense.

 

[Big Lou]

Is there any hope of lightening the mood?

 

[Sheetmetalman]

So Mogsie if we use your own Allegorical Examples. " The more cars on the road the more likely you will be run over"--- It runs over you so do you vastly reduce car ownership to reduce the possibility of being ran over and/or killed? If not why not? You want to reduce Gun ownership to reduce Gun incidents so what is the difference, Car kills you, Gun kills you--there is only one difference EVIL INTENT, nothing else, the car is just a tool used by a humans will--the gun is just a tool used by a humans will. Oh I know the old arguments about someone, a child perhaps or someone untrained in a guns use picking it up and killing themselves or someone in an accident--no evil intent of course but that is life, accidents happen, I dont want to sound cold, its up to the trained gun owners to keep a gun safely out of reach of the untrained, I have nothing against sensible laws and individuals actions to prevent these tragedys, for example my loaded pistols are locked in a gun safe. However my cousin Charles at the age of 7 drove my uncles car thru the back of the garage--if anyone had been between it and the wall they would have been just as dead as an accidental discharge of a gun and you know what, if it was in the case of a Gun Accident it would have been called a horrible Accident and there would be calls for MORE Gun Control but if it was Death by Car there would NOT be a call for CAR CONTROL. Regardles there are 3 possible reasons for a death by a firearm #1 Tragedy from an Accident. #2 Murder from Evil Intent or Insanity #3 Heroism from someone using a gun to save a life or stop a tragedy. The first 2; Tragedies and Murders are all you will hear about if you read or watch this country's corrupt mainstream news media BECAUSE they are trying to push an Agenda; GUN CONTROL if you want to read the third; Heroism with a Gun you have to read the other side--that other side is your small newspapers that are just stateing the facts NOT pushing an Agenda. If you truly want to understand my point of view Mogsie, Punch in The Armed Citizen (all one long word all lower case-- thearmedcitizen.com--) and on their home page scroll down half way and punch the tab that says --armed citizens stories--View All---- Those stories have been gleaned from news articles all across America and show all the Heroic uses of Guns-little old ladies living alone that stopped robberies, Rapes or their own Murders because they had a Gun, Shop Owners that saved theirselves and their employees because they had a gun--story after story backed up with dates, facts and the newspapers they were printed in--stories the mainstream media doesnt want anybody to know about because they dont fit their Agenda of the EVIL GUN.

 

[capewind]

look i am not a god believing person but to preach the word of the bible whilst also preaching the gun ?? maybe you should read romans 12:19.

It is sad when anyone, believer or not, twists the words of the Bible. Romans 12:19 speaks of REVENGE. Please tell me HOW this connects to the CT tradegy, mental illness, or responsible gun ownership???

 

[mogsie]

cape wind you talk about twisting things when you are twisting words yourself ! i did not in any way say it was related to ct mental illness or gun ownership did i ???? it was refering to the statement of preaching the bible whilst simultaneously preaching the gun !
in regards to cars etc i was speaking metaphorically which you all know, but hey you cannot agree with the common sense of that statement nor answer yes or no to the earlier question i asked " if the guy didnt have acces to guns then he couldnt have caused the scale of attrocity that he did" because the answer to this question and the common sense in the latter post does not fit in with your pro gun opinions, so instead you reply with multi paragraphed out of context replies,
but hey ime sorry if my beliefs happen to clash with yours, and i guess its none of my bussiness what laws get passed in your country, hell i dont care as they do not directly effect me, if they try to make guns legal in my country then i can oppose it, so for now i will shut up,
as i stated earlier maybe it would be best if we changed to a more lighter topic of discussion !