Pondless Waterfall Build Questions

[combatwombat]

For the main stream - https://www.thepondguy.com/product/oase-waterfall-pump/
For the other two - https://www.thepondguy.com/product/oase-waterfall-pump/

Those links are the same and don't specify the pump size. But I think you said the 8000 and the 5000. The 8000 is not going to fit in a 15" pipe once you've notched it for the matric blocks. At 7" wide, it will hardly fit at all. You certainly aren't going to fit two in there without stacking them. You need to go up to 18" and make 2 vaults. If you're buying it in 10' lengths, you should have plenty to make that work. Just need to make a plan to disguise the tops.

 

[Pablo]

Have to say this has been very entertaining. Best line yet was Lisa saying Combatwombat thinks you are overthinking it....

 

[Lisak1]

Thanks @Pablo - I was hoping someone caught that!

The geotextile is used behind retaining walls here in the midwest to keep soil from eroding through the rocks - constant contact with water won't bother it one bit. I have underlayment in my pond thats been there 12 years - it's as strong as the day we put it in. We used scraps to move rocks and just left them under when we place them. It grows algae and looks natural.

I've been on the "this sounds like more than you should tackle as a first timer" for a few pages now. I'm not telling you what to do, but IF IT WERE ME, I'd choose "two man" rocks - big enough to make an impact, but small enough to be moved by sling, wagon, roll with a crowbar, etc. No machine. No time crunch. Built this thing the right way - from the bottom up. I've seen pros do what you're trying to do and THEY say it's nearly impossible... and they have 1. experience 2. time 3. a full crew of guys and 4. did I mention experience? It's just not the way to get it right.

We have a pondless waterfall that my son built when he was 17 - first time project, no rock bigger than a basketball. And it's beautiful. You get it all planted up and honestly the size of the rocks becomes a non-issue.

 

[msr0459]

Those links are the same and don't specify the pump size. But I think you said the 8000 and the 5000. The 8000 is not going to fit in a 15" pipe once you've notched it for the matric blocks. At 7" wide, it will hardly fit at all. You certainly aren't going to fit two in there without stacking them. You need to go up to 18" and make 2 vaults. If you're buying it in 10' lengths, you should have plenty to make that work. Just need to make a plan to disguise the tops.

6600 for the main fall, size: 12Lx6.75Wx8.5H
5150 for the other two, size: 9.5Lx5.5Wx6.5H

 

[msr0459]

The basic technics your not familiar with makes me question slinging 3001plus pound boulders

No offense taken at all. I've done a TON of various project here at home, all with not much working knowledge before starting. I'm a research and question asking maniac! Lol And I certainly know better than to try and move huge boulders.

 

[msr0459]

but IF IT WERE ME, I'd choose "two man" rocks - big enough to make an impact, but small enough to be moved by sling, wagon, roll with a crowbar, etc. No machine. No time crunch. Built this thing the right way - from the bottom up. I've seen pros do what you're trying to do and THEY say it's nearly impossible... and they have 1. experience 2. time 3. a full crew of guys and 4. did I mention experience? It's just not the way to get it right.

Well, I've just come back from purchasing the first load of rocks. I purposely did in fact get "mostly" 2 man rocks. Really wanting some nice framing rocks, I do have 6 or so that are around 30" ish wide, so the machine will, at a minimum grab it and place it, and I'll wiggle as needed, whatever. I plan on doing some "safe" experimental strap pick ups and set downs, to see if it's possible. I do work safe, but I am unstoppable when it comes to starting a project, I get it done, period. It may not be as nice when I'm done as the pros, but I'm confident in my abilities and creativity to move the "two man" rocks around to get the look I'm after.

And there simply is no way to build it from the bottom up, and also use some larg ish bolders up top, which I'm going to do. Again, the basin will be just a little over from where the tracks will be on his machine. Even though he's not planning of having to crawl up the slope much at all, it's too risky to dig out the basin first. I plan on placing the higher levels of larger framing rocks, then have him dig out the basin. At that point I can clean it up, place the liner, backfill, etc., and if time permits, I'll have him gently move some medium to large rocks around the bottom area as needed.

I'm not trying to get the entire thing done at once. Just the "heavy lifting", as it were. Basically, once I get the larger framing rocks and spill rocks in place, and the basin dug, I can finish the rest and/or tweak it over time. I just need the excavation guy done and out of the way before a certain date. If it's seems like no way we'll get it done in 6 hrs, then yes, I will have him work the next day, as I just cannot do things half a**ed! Lol

 

[combatwombat]

I appreciate your tenacity. I'm the same way. Better to ask a million "dumb" questions until you really understand it so that you have the best chance to get it right. Asking those questions makes others doubt you because they think you're clueless, but it all builds towards an overall understanding and confidence in yourself.

I can respect the approach. We all have different learning styles, but this is a forum where text and a few pictures is about the best you can do, so we do our best with the tools we have.

 

[GBBUDD]

Thanks @Pablo - I was hoping someone caught that!

Are you kidding I about blew milk put my nose as I was having dinner when I read that.

 

[Lisak1]

Are you kidding I about blew milk put my nose as I was having dinner when I read that.

It's good to be appreciated.

Better to ask a million "dumb" questions

I don't think there's been a single dumb question - all very good questions actually. I too admire an "I can do this" spirit - I think most of us here share that same attitude. We built a pond that was far above our skill level - I sometimes think "how in the world did we manage that?" I don't think I'd ever try it again, though. First off my labor force is all older now - they all make enough money that they'd rather pay someone to build mom a pond. haha! But secondly, I know just how lucky we got - so many things that could have gone wrong and didn't. Lots and lots of beginner's luck. What's that they say about lucky vs good?

@msr0459 - I'm rooting for you. Hey - do you have room for a pond? Because you know that's next, right?

 

[msr0459]

do you have room for a pond? Because you know that's next, right?

 

[GBBUDD]

One thing that i have had a lot of experience in is time management in construction. Watching different crews work and accessing how long that crew will take % wise to others. The 6 hrs is a blink it goes by quick.

But your last statement just trying to set character stones and weir stones will help. You won't waste time looking and Flipping rocks to fit an area. if your cutting the steps in the hill side for the drops and setting three boulders. folding down the liner. back filling as you go. LEAVING SLACK AT ANY POINT THAT MIGHT SETTLE AND STRETCH THE LINER, leave a deliberate wrinkle.

 

[msr0459]

LEAVING SLACK AT ANY POINT THAT MIGHT SETTLE AND STRETCH THE LINER, leave a

To clarify what you mean here,.. are you saying that as I lift the liner to backfill, don't have it pulled tight against the framing stone?

 

[msr0459]

Check FB Marketplace, Offerup, and Craigslist. If no luck there, call up some commercial plumbing supply places and see if they have any spare chunks laying around. There are often big chunks that just go straight in the trash as it's used for dunning during transport of large quantities of the stuff. They may have a dumpster full of them.

I've emailed a guy on Craigslist. He has a 36" 4.5 piece of culvert. Is too large to deal with? It would obviously be large enough to house 2 pumps. So far the issue with 36" is finding a lid. I've searched for 36" septic lids, and they're 150+ bucks! I mean, still cheaper than purchasing two commercial pump vaults, but still, over 150 for a lid!?

 

[combatwombat]

I've emailed a guy on Craigslist. He has a 36" 4.5 piece of culvert. Is too large to deal with? It would obviously be large enough to house 2 pumps. So far the issue with 36" is finding a lid. I've searched for 36" septic lids, and they're 150+ bucks! I mean, still cheaper than purchasing two commercial pump vaults, but still, over 150 for a lid!?

A 36” will be quite large. Maybe cut it in half. Should still be big enough for 2 pumps.

Might be a more affordable DIY lid that performs well. Will think about that.

Maybe cut 1-2 slots in the top to accept a treated 2x4. Kind of like a built in joist hanger. Then you have a choice of outdoor materials you could use as a lid/floor and then cover with rock to disguise.

 

[msr0459]

A 36” will be quite large. Maybe cut it in half. Should still be big enough for 2 pumps.

Might be a more affordable DIY lid that performs well. Will think about that.

Maybe cut 1-2 slots in the top to accept a treated 2x4. Kind of like a built in joist hanger. Then you have a choice of outdoor materials you could use as a lid/floor and then cover with rock to disguise.

Yep, I was thinking 36" would be too large, even for two pumps. Sigh, the search continues. My last resort to hit up the various septic companies, etc., if not, looks like I'll be forced to purchase two commercial ones. I also checked on the 18" ones from tractor supply. The charge another 200+ to ship it to store, nope! That would've put to almost as much as two new vaults.