Pondless Waterfall Build Questions

[RMaynard]

That’s the advantage to back filling you can help lock the rocks in place. It’s like digging in dirt and hitting a rock what a pain it can be trying to dig out the rock there’s no cement but often times it’s a fight where you’d swear it was cemented in but it’s only dirt

How can they use that to their advantage in this case?

 

[combatwombat]

I see there's a cap that'll go on the cuvlert pipe. I guess one on the bottom and one on the top?

Why are you concerned about a cap on the bottom?

But isn't there supposed to be a certain amount of water inside the vault, accounting for gph, etc.?

Yeah. You cut a big chunk out of it and set it up against your matrix blocks. Done.

Also, can't find any distributors in the USA for the Apollo flex pvc.

Sorry, the manufacturer is actually Alpine.

Alpine Corporation 2 in. x 25 ft. Schedule 40 Black PVC Ultra Flexible Hose for Koi Ponds, Irrigation, Water Gardens and More PH200BK-25 - The Home Depot

Create a stunning focal point for your pond or water feature with the selection of this excellent Alpine Corporation UltraFlex Hose with Inside Diameter for S. The product is uv stabilized.

www.homedepot.com

I did see that Lowe's has a less expensive "pond pipe", it's flex, but has rings, or ridges for the added flexibility, which would make it difficult to seal going into the spillway bulkhead, etc.

Don’t use that. It’s junk.

OK, but what about the fact that all the commercial vaults have slots in them, and aren't different vaults rated for different GPH needs?

See above. Cut a chunk out the height of your matrix blocks and you’re good for about 100,000 GPH.

But since there's no weight in the bottom of the pipe, what prevents it from floating up from the bottom? Also, I guess you drilled a hole in the side for the plumbing?

What prevents any other vault from floating up? It’s full of water! Go watch some more large scale professional builds on YouTube. You’ll see culvert pipe being used all the time as a pump vault.

I've got to cut out all of the previously cemented pvc fittings. I think I'd need to cut the flex just before the wye, remove the flex from the spillway bulkhead, then extend the flex with whatever I'd need to do so,.. etc. What a pain! Boy oh boy my brain never stops! LOL

You’re really overthinking this. If you have to cut out some fitting you cut them out. It’s easy. You’ll see.

 

[Lisak1]

You’re really overthinking this.

When CW says you're overthinking...

 

[GBBUDD]

How can they use that to their advantage in this case?

when building the stacked rocks filling in around them certainly helps to stabilize them

 

[msr0459]

Why are you concerned about a cap on the bottom?

Not concerned, just no working knowledge of vaults. Which is why I'm so very hesitant with tying to make my own. I've seen a ton of the pro builds, a lot were from the Aquascape folks, and they always use there own brand vaults. Just wish there was a youtube tutorial with someone making one out of culvert pipe as you suggested.

 

[combatwombat]

Not concerned, just no working knowledge of vaults. Which is why I'm so very hesitant with tying to make my own. I've seen a ton of the pro builds, a lot were from the Aquascape folks, and they always use there own brand vaults. Just wish there was a youtube tutorial with someone making one out of culvert pipe as you suggested.

Watch the series with John J Adams building his “dream pond” at his own house. He’s one of the top Aquascape contractors and he used culvert pipe for his own project instead of an aquascape product.

If you think about all these pond products from a first principles perspective, you can start to see how simple many of them are. There’s not much secret sauce to them.

 

[GBBUDD]

I have to add though not to use trash cans there strength is inside pushing out . Not outside pushing in . Now if you only have a vault that's a foot of two deep that's different as there's not a ton of weight pushing on it change that to 3 f eet or more and you'll be reworking that again in the future

 

[msr0459]

Watch the series with John J Adams building his “dream pond” at his own house. He’s one of the top Aquascape contractors and he used culvert pipe for his own project instead of an aquascape product.

I just spent 15 minutes trying to find it on youtube, to no avail. Is there an exact title I can search. It seems just John J Adam's pulls up a lot of non pond stuff.

 

[Lisak1]

I think you have to remember also that ALL of these products - skimmers, vaults, biofalls, etc - started out as bins, garbage cans, etc as the innovators in the pond world started experimenting with building these things on their own. Aquascape famously started as the brain child of 12 year old Greg Wittstock who wanted to build a pond for his beloved turtles. He tried and succeeded - or failed - with lots of different ideas. And they are still learning. That's one of the things I love about Aquascape - they are constantly field testing their products and making improvements based on real pond building experience.

 

[msr0459]

See above. Cut a chunk out the height of your matrix blocks and you’re good for about 100,000 GPH.

Circling back to this.. my matrixblox will stacked in two's, so one on top of another. I'm trying to visualize what kind, or how large of a "chunk" you mean? Also, if part of the reason for a vault is to keep small debris from wrecking the pump(s), wouldn't a large piece cut out of the side of the culvert pipe, while perhaps allowing enough gph, allow to much space for crap to get into pump? Don't get me wrong,.. I would really like to save the money, especially since I now am going with a 2 pump system (pretty sure),.. but at the same time, I have a fear of screwing up almost a grand in pumps!

 

[Lisak1]

If water is flowing into your basin through gravel, you won't have any debris getting to the pump that's large enough to cause an issue. It will all get caught in the gravel.

 

[msr0459]

Sorry, the manufacturer is actually Alpine.

Alpine Corporation 2 in. x 25 ft. Schedule 40 Black PVC Ultra Flexible Hose for Koi Ponds, Irrigation, Water Gardens and More PH200BK-25 - The Home Depot

Create a stunning focal point for your pond or water feature with the selection of this excellent Alpine Corporation UltraFlex Hose with Inside Diameter for S. The product is uv stabilized.

www.homedepot.com

I will need more than 25', as the hillside is about 22, the basin is another 3', then I'll need enough to come up behind the spillway. I found a vendor on Amazon that has "HydroMaxx 2"x50' black flex pvc pipe" for $169.99. Appears to be the same thing?

 

[combatwombat]

I just spent 15 minutes trying to find it on youtube, to no avail. Is there an exact title I can search. It seems just John J Adam's pulls up a lot of non pond stuff.

Here's the whole playlist.

I'm trying to visualize what kind, or how large of a "chunk" you mean?

You literally just cut it to interface with the matrix blocks. Watch the playlist above. Skip around and scrub through the different videos to find the parts where they're working on the negative edge reservoir.

Also, if part of the reason for a vault is to keep small debris from wrecking the pump(s),

@Lisak1 addressed this. And that's not the function of a vault, so we can discard that concern.

I will need more than 25'

Alright, then buy a 50' or 100' roll or multiples or a combination and attach them with couplings.

 

[msr0459]

I've searched all around me, no used culvert pipe at all. I've found a Tractor's Supply that I can order in a 9.75 long piece of 15" pipe. I've decided on (for now) a couple of OASE pumps, which would fit in the diameter). It's $199.99 plus another $99.99 shipping. With tax I'd be out $311.98. If I go with a commercial vault, and still go with 2 pumps ( another discussion? ), my cost will be close to a grand!

I so like the idea of just ordering some freaking vaults and being done with it, BUT, I've already spent way more than I realized I'd have to, but there's no turning back now! Lol

So, my question again is, will a 15" culvert, with a chunk cut out of it, backed up to my Matixblox, allow enough GPH, AND protect my pumps? Even though I'm still trying to work out how I would cut out the "chunks"?, a hack saw I guess?,... and i suppose I'd just use 2" round drill bit to cut out for the plumbing? Would have to also figure out how to seal the bulk head? Doesn't sound like fun, but I am fairly handy when it comes to fabricating stuff, and I certainly would rather spend $300 ish than a grand! But my brain is fried trying to figure all this out!

 

[msr0459]

@Lisak1 addressed this. And that's not the function of a vault, so we can discard that concern.

So EXACTLY what is the reason for a vault. When I built a much smaller waterfall and stream over a decade ago, I just used a filter bag of some kind, placed the pump in it, and never had issues, at least for the remaining years we lived there,... maybe 7 or so.