Pondless Waterfall Build Questions

[msr0459]

I was on the phone with a consultant/sales person yesterday from the website, thepondguy.com. She was very knowledgeable about all waterfall builds, or at least to me. We discussed the pros and cons of 1 large pump vs 2 smaller pumps. Doing the math between the two, the 1 large pump came out a little less expensive up front, by around 400 bucks I believe, BUT, the larger pump would require allegedly more maintenance (oil change, gaskets, etc) compared to the 2 smaller pumps. I think due to the smaller pumps not having to work as hard to get the flow needed in my situation. Also, the 1 larger pump would consume more energy over time ( briefly discussed here ) vs the 2 smaller pumps. Also, the 1 large pump ( can't recall the brand recommended ) had only a 2 year warranty ( because they work harder? ) and the smaller OASE pumps have a 3 year warranty.

I kind of leaning towards the 2 pump scenario, but am so torn because of all that extra money up front. Opinion?

 

[msr0459]

Underlayment, liner, underlayment. Protect the liner on both sides. Plus the top layer of underlayment will provide traction if you need to walk in it at any point. It will grow algae and almost be like carpet. Much better than slippery liner. And it looks better if it's ever exposed.

I get the "why" I'm to sandwich the liner between 2 layers of underlayment. I received my liner and underlayment yesterday, and really have no frame of reference when it comes to underlayment, so no clue if I purchase crap or not! I purchased from "halfoffponds". It was advertised as "geotextile underlayment", and looked about the same as all the other online ones.

All that to say,.. this stuff to me appears to have a "felt" like feel to it, but seems fairly thick and durable. But, if it's on top where water constantly has it soaked,... wont this stuff eventually just degrade? To me, if it was all on the bottom, e.g., 2 layers, then the liner, it would be protected from being constantly soaked. Yep, I'm ridiculously worrisome, I know! Lol

 

[msr0459]

You literally just cut it to interface with the matrix blocks

OK, but to be clear, you're saying to cut out an area large enough to actually slide a matrixbox into the opening? And if I'm stacking 2 blox, I would then make a "cut out" on the side of the culvert to be able to slide the dbl stacked blox into. And how far into the culvert should the blox go?,.. I mean, since a pump is in there, not too far, but?

 

[msr0459]

You literally just cut it to interface with the matrix blocks. Watch the playlist above. Skip around and scrub through the different videos to find the parts where they're working on the negative edge reservoir.

OK, I found that episode, and holy crap!, that dude must've spent 20G or more on materials alone! It does give me a better idea of at least how to cut out the section of culvert. It didn't address like in my situation, regarding the hole for plumbing and sealing the bulkhead connection. Also, I noticed he was also dropping in the Aquascape Vaults as well, what's up with that? He's using both?

 

[GBBUDD]

This should help watch the whole thing

 

[GBBUDD]

Circling back to this.. my matrixblox will stacked in two's, so one on top of another. I'm trying to visualize what kind, or how large of a "chunk" you mean? Also, if part of the reason for a vault is to keep small debris from wrecking the pump(s), wouldn't a large piece cut out of the side of the culvert pipe, while perhaps allowing enough gph, allow to much space for crap to get into pump? Don't get me wrong,.. I would really like to save the money, especially since I now am going with a 2 pump system (pretty sure),.. but at the same time, I have a fear of screwing up almost a grand in pumps!

-what he's trying to tell you I is if you have matrix blocks creating a cistern ,water storage . That if you tie in the culvert with the cmp_. Cut the cap at the bottom now you have the mass of the blocks as your storage youcould never get enough pumps to draw faster than is available.

 

[combatwombat]

I've searched all around me, no used culvert pipe at all.

Check FB Marketplace, Offerup, and Craigslist. If no luck there, call up some commercial plumbing supply places and see if they have any spare chunks laying around. There are often big chunks that just go straight in the trash as it's used for dunning during transport of large quantities of the stuff. They may have a dumpster full of them.

So, my question again is, will a 15" culvert, with a chunk cut out of it, backed up to my Matixblox, allow enough GPH, AND protect my pumps?

GPH, of course. Protection is a non-issue. But I think 15" may be too small. Post the links to the pumps you're going with again. What are the dimensions? A 15" culvert, once cut down, will have a smaller footprint at the base. I remember OASE submersibles to be quite large and sit horizontally. Definitely won't fit two in there, but you might get away with 1 per vault. I think probably too small, though.

how I would cut out the "chunks"?, a hack saw I guess?

Sawzall, circular saw, jig saw, hand saw. Doesn't matter. Whatever you have available. It's plastic. It cuts easy.

i suppose I'd just use 2" round drill bit to cut out for the plumbing?

More like 2.5". 2" is the inside diameter. You can use a hole saw bit or, again, a jig saw, small hack saw, whatever.

Would have to also figure out how to seal the bulk head?

What are you referring to as the bulkhead? The hole for the plumbing? Absolutely no need to seal that. If you mean the open top, you can use a septic tank riser lid.

So EXACTLY what is the reason for a vault.

It's to give you easy access to a submersible pump when it's placed somewhere that will be covered by other objects. THAT'S IT. THAT IS THE ONLY PURPOSE OF A PUMP VAULT. Once you understand that, you can stop thinking so hard about it. There is no need to seal anything. It's supposed to have water in it.

I kind of leaning towards the 2 pump scenario, but am so torn because of all that extra money up front. Opinion?

Do the two.

wont this stuff eventually just degrade?

Not any faster than the rest of the materials you're using to build your pond.

OK, but to be clear, you're saying to cut out an area large enough to actually slide a matrixbox into the opening? And if I'm stacking 2 blox, I would then make a "cut out" on the side of the culvert to be able to slide the dbl stacked blox into. And how far into the culvert should the blox go?,.. I mean, since a pump is in there, not too far, but?

Please watch the "oasis pond build" series I linked previously. It will all make sense once you see it.

Also, I noticed he was also dropping in the Aquascape Vaults as well, what's up with that? He's using both?

That must be in one of the videos I haven't seen. Link? Maybe Greg Wittstock got mad John wasn't using his products.

 

[GBBUDD]

Plumbing supply is the wrong store . Fwwebb is one company that may have it but you want to find heavy highway or and road crew. Stop and ask them who in your area has culvert pipe that you need a6 feet of SCRAP 24 inch or even two 3 footers. A septic company is another supplier who will have it . But no Galvanized

 

[GBBUDD]

No offense but the questions your now asking is leading me to believe you maybe bitting off more than you can chew.



A pond is a 100 times easier to build than a stream coming down a steep slope



The basic technics your not familiar with makes me question slinging 3001plus pound boulders . Working under a tight time frame . A 50 pond Boulder rolling down hill can ruin your day.



I'm not trying to offend you I have been in construction 45 years now. And at certain points skills are obtained to venture to the next challenge. If you have the budget for two umps I strongly advice 2 days or 12 hours for the excavator and take your time. The pros are not so much about speed as they are artistic. You have seen the flag stone waterfalls. That home owner builds have created a g ain't the pros who don't use flagstone at all. They let the rocks tell them w g at side is up as Brian fr I m aquascapes always says we have a basic design never and exact plan with measurements. 1


The pump vault is an area that creates a void for the pump to sit in or a pipe. That is open to a water storage area, and is the lowest part so every drop of water gets used when needed.

The aquascape pump vault is much smaller than a 24 inch culvert pipe and they have faux rocks to help cover them. My 24 inch is bigger than any faux rock that I could find. And like @combatwombat Said earl I er you cut the pipe to notch over the aquablocks my 23 is cut down to prob

 

[GBBUDD]

OK, I found that episode, and holy crap!, that dude must've spent 20G or more on materials alone! It does give me a better idea of at least tate how to cut out the section of culvert. It didn't address like in my situation, regarding the hole for plumbing and sealing the bulkhead connection. Also, I noticed he was also dropping in the Aquascape Vaults as well, what's up with that? He's using both?

-20 g I can assure you he spent double that on rocks alone the trucking alone in state but from west Tennessee to east had to cost him 5 grand alone. The weathered lime stone is very pricey. Heck I spent double that. His custom vault I would guesstimate at 10,000 heck he has 5k in pumps. If I had to guess 10 k in lights. But what a creation he made he took a Simple ranch and made it a vacation home. Year round. To bad he doesnt get a lot of snow .

 

[msr0459]

Post the links to the pumps you're going with again. What are the dimensions? A 15" culvert, once cut down, will have a smaller footprint at the base. I remember OASE submersibles to be quite large and sit horizontally. Definitely won't fit two in there, but you might get away with 1 per vault. I think probably too small, though.

For the main stream - https://www.thepondguy.com/product/oase-waterfall-pump/
For the other two - https://www.thepondguy.com/product/oase-waterfall-pump/

 

[GBBUDD]

OK, but to be clear, you're saying to cut out an area large enough to actually slide a matrixbox into the opening? And if I'm stacking 2 blox, I would then make a "cut out" on the side of the culvert to be able to slide the dbl stacked blox into. And how far into the culvert should the blox go?,.. I mean, since a pump is in there, not too far, but?

-the cut is only deep enough to allow the cmp to sit onto the blocks not fill it. my blocks stick in to the cmp Iless than 1/4 of the cmp which also add water volume

 

[GBBUDD]

wont this stuff eventually just degrade? T

-no its polypropylene uv is its enemy n I t water.



If you can poke a pencil through the underlayment with little effect then it is on the thin side of once content or tear resistances

 

[GBBUDD]

For the main stream - https://www.thepondguy.com/product/oase-waterfall-pump/

For the other two - https://www.thepondguy.com/product/oase-waterfall-pump/

-not sure what your picturing for water flow but even the 3700 only pushes 2500 gph at 20 feet. That's a rather thin waterfall but like I said before go for what you hope will work for the larger falls if it is much less than you thought then use it for the smaller falls and upgrade to the larger falls.
Here's what 100 to 5000k loops like in gph

 

[msr0459]

Not any faster than the rest of the materials you're using to build your pond

Regarding the underlayment I ordered. I know it’s hard to see in these pics, but surely this stuff will break down WAY before the rubber liner, with it being saturated with water constantly. Please don't think me argumentative, but I'm having a hard time picturing this underlayment on top..even though I've seen pro builds with it on top, well, they put an extra layer on top for the basin, not sure about the stream.