Water Changes

[bettasngoldfish]

This is the filter I have, no UV or spillway http://m.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=16843

 

[Meyer Jordan]

This is the filter I have, no UV or spillway http://m.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=16843

I'm guessing....no skimmer? Pump sits on bottom of pond?

 

[bettasngoldfish]

No skimmer, pump is sitting up off the bottom of pond on a small plastic table.

 

[Priscilla]

@Priscilla If your pond is over stocked it is important to at least check your water quality and then do water changes accordingly. Just my two cents anyway

I don't think its overstocked exactly. But I have a lot of koi. Lots of space for them so far. I'll be adding a second pond soon, connected by a stream.

 

[sissy]

you can have my water changes so far 8 inch's of water changes from the sky .Believe me it can mess up your water also especially when you are dealing with a leak also .I am beginning to think water changes are overrated

 

[bettasngoldfish]

I'm guessing....no skimmer? Pump sits on bottom of pond?

Why do you ask?

No skimmer and pump does not sit on bottom of pond.

@Priscilla my statement wasn't directed at you alone, I was referring to anyone who is overstocked or pushing the limits of what their pond can hold.

 

[morewater]

Water "changes" are a myth and completely unnecessary.

By "changing" the water (ie. pumping it out and then refilling), you're introducing a whole new smorgasbord of nutrients into the water, which will in turn give rise to a fresh new bloom of algae. Partial water changes are more common, generally about 10-15%, and only when the water is particularly grubby, or when a fair amount of water has been lost to a leak, hose break or evaporation.

I collect rainwater from the roof and use this to top up the pond, thus eliminating the need for dechlorination (although in my experience, the addition of 10% of tap water has no effect on the fish).

Occasionally, it may become necessary to do a full pond empty, clean and refill. This is generally only done when you've got a major job or problem (ie. hose upgrade/replacement, root invasion, liner pierce, etc.). This is the time to do a major clean, although pressure washing of the liner is a no-no.

 

[morewater]

@Lisak1 and @Meyer Jordan


Do either of you vacuum the bottom of your ponds?

I vacuum in the Spring after using D-Solv 9 powder to lift the organic debris off the bottom of the pond. I use an Oase PondVac4, which recycles the water while trapping the debris in the discharge net.

I only start the vacuuming process once I've collected everything I can by stirring up the bottom with the net and letting the skimmer take care of it.

 

[Lisak1]

Part of the reason I say this is because I know from having gravel in some of my aquariums what it looks like if you start to disturb the gravel or when you vacuum it how much gunk is pulled up into the water syphon. I don't even use gravel in my fancy goldfish tanks due to the crud that builds up. I feel the gravel looks better but I don't like my fish being exposed to the toxins that can build up especially as they root around in the gravel looking for food

Here are two differences I can think of between a garden pond and your fish tanks (well any fish tanks really:

Number 1 - the waterfall/spillway combined with a skimmer creates a current in a pond that keeps debris moving. When I stand still in my pond I can feel the water flowing past my legs to the pond outlet. Obviously some debris is still going to sink and settle, but not to the degree it would in a tank. We have a tree over our pond that is dropping leaves right now - I can see maybe a half dozen in the bottom of the pond; the rest have skimmed off on their own. Our only leaf concern is after winter when leaves that get trapped in the snow and ice become waterlogged and sink - those we have to scoop.

Number 2 is the number and variety of plants you can, and will want to, grow in a garden pond. From the research I have done, the various types of aquatic plantings all contribute in different ways to keeping the pond free from the elements that would be of concern if you had only fish and water. All three are necessary to a healthy water eco-system. Although I shouldn't limit it to three elements as a garden pond is teeming with life that we can't see - all those microscopic critters do their part, too!

Having now re-read the additional posts, I think @Meyer Jordan was leading up to my point with his question about a skimmer and where your pump sits and @MitchM preceded me with his comment about his planted tanks.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Having now re-read the additional posts, I think @Meyer Jordan was leading up to my point with his question about a skimmer and where your pump sits and @MitchM preceded me with his comment about his planted tanks.

You are correct, Lisak1. That is what I was leading up to.
Not only is Flow Rate very important in an aquatic habitat but also Flow pattern.
The goal is to create a laminar flow parallel to the length of the pond directing the movement of all suspended materials towards the skimmer. This works well in either a bare liner or R & G pond. However, in a R & G pond there is the added benefit of the turbulence created as the laminar flow moves over the surface of the gravel, causing the finer sediment to be suspended and eventually carried away.
Unfortunately the shape of the pond will determine if a true laminar flow can be established. The important influencing factor here is the ratio of surface area to depth. The higher this ratio the easier it is to establish an effective laminar flow.
Sadly the lack of consideration of this ratio when designing or constructing an aquatic habitat eventually leads to higher required maintenance and less than ideal functioning of the entire eco-system.

 

[cas]

shape of the pond will determine if a true laminar flow can be established

This is what I wish I knew before I built my pond. I discovered that with the shape of my pond and having the pump in the skimmer I wasn't getting any water circulation at the bottom. I have now been adding either a bottom pump or air stones to circulate the water at the bottom and I have noticed there isn't as much need for me to vacuum.

 

[Dave 54]

IMO, Water changes are necessary for the long term health of your fish. Although I have noticed that many members of this forum do not necessarily do them. Not really sure why? From what I have learned most all serious koi keepers do regular water changes (I personally don't have koi but would still like to keep my fish healthy)

By doing water changes you remove excess nitrates and/or heavy metals that build up if you are only topping off evaporated water. They help rid your pond water of organics that build up and may not have been taken care of by your filter. And the fresh water also replaces minerals that are necessary for your fish.

This is just basic fish care/maintenance that I learned from keeping aquariums but I feel it also applies to ponds. I mean no disrespect by this (to those who don't do water changes) but I'm not really sure why anyone would argue the point?

I agree with @bettasngoldfish on this, I have to take issue about waterchanges or the lack of them in our ponds .
Weve been keeping along time now and water changes are a necessary especially if you run mechanical forms of filtration .
I would go so far as to say this , every book I have mentions them and everyone I know does them.
Its part and parcel of our hobby and shows good pond husbandry, @Meyer Jordan runs a different type of pond to many of us it being purely natural .
My Mentor when we came out into the pond enviroment from our indoor koi tank mentioned them he as you know was the former head of the BKKS health Standards commitee even his American counter part when he was former head of the AKCA .
In his book given out when you join the koi Organization International states that water changes are necessary infact he goes one further and states if in doubt the best thing you can do is a water change, it would be interesting to see what koiphen would have to say about them.
I think they would come down on the side of routine water changes ......
Many of us koi keepers employ a gravity fed bottom drain the water turning in a circular fasion [ top to bottom] as a result of the bottom drain bubbler .
We also have a good flow from he return pipe which is 2ft down the side of the pond

Dave

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I agree with @betasngoldfish on this, I have to take issue about waterchanges or the lack of them in our ponds .
Weve been keeping along time now and water changes are a necessary especially if you run mechanical forms of filtration .
I would go so far as to say this , every book I have mentions them and everyone I know does them.
Its part and parcel of our hobby and shows good pond husbandry, @MeyerJordan runs a different type of pond to many of us it being purely natural .
My Mentor when we came out into the pond enviroment from our indoor koi tank mentioned them he as you know was the former head of the BKKS health Standards commitee even his American counter part when he was former head of the AKCA .
In his book given out when you join the koi Organization International states that water changes are necessary infact he goes one further and states if in doubt the best thing you can do is a water change, it would be interesting to see what koiphen would have to say about them.
I think they would come down on the side of routine water changes ......

Dave

In Post #28 of this thread, I mentioned that dedicated Koi ponds such as Dave's may require water changes.(There are alternatives even in these systems.) However, it seems that the vast majority of forum members do not have dedicated Koi ponds but rather ponds that are more closely related to eco-system ponds. For these ponds, water changes are not necessary and can be more damaging than beneficial.
The functionality between the 2 types of ponds should never be compared because they are entirely different systems.
If water changes are necessary in all ponds, then how does one account for the stability and health of the ponds where water changes are absent as attested to in posts within this thread?
My ponds are not purely natural, but I do believe in approximating those conditions that do exist in a natural pond allowing for and encouraging the establishment of those natural processes that have proven over eons to provide for a stable and healthy aquatic environment. I also believe that this is ultimately the goal of anyone who has a Garden Pond; that believes that the entire cast of creatures associated with an aquatic environment is more desirable than the display of only one or two species.

 

[barryian]

IMO, Water changes are necessary for the long term health of your fish. Although I have noticed that many members of this forum do not necessarily do them. Not really sure why? From what I have learned most all serious koi keepers do regular water changes (I personally don't have koi but would still like to keep my fish healthy)

By doing water changes you remove excess nitrates and/or heavy metals that build up if you are only topping off evaporated water. They help rid your pond water of organics that build up and may not have been taken care of by your filter. And the fresh water also replaces minerals that are necessary for your fish.

This is just basic fish care/maintenance that I learned from keeping aquariums but I feel it also applies to ponds. I mean no disrespect by this (to those who don't do water changes) but I'm not really sure why anyone would argue the point?

Not quite sure how this will work as I'm on my iPhone.
I've been koi ponding 23 years and have to say, water changes are a necessity. Some do 10% a week, others like myself do 20% every 10 to 2 weeks depending. Perfect looking water can be toxic so one can't go by looks.
Testing is paramount. I test mostly for ammonia, PH , nitrite, and one of the most important KH. With low or no KH, you're apt to have a PH crash. The PH # isn't as important { mine is always 8.4 } as is the stability. A crash is a killer.
I also do potassium permanganate treatments monthly keeping bacteria down to a minimum. It isn't suggested for beginners but with much reading, you'll have no problem. It also keeps down on water changes a bit if it is cleared with hydrogen peroxide. The water looks like glass afterwards for quite some time.
I suggest getting books and keep reading. With proper filtration and water chemistry, there is no reason to be adding these so called beneficial bacteria's on the market and all other crazy chemicals sold.
Of course if there is a problem and you isolate it with possibly a microscope or by eye, you'll need to treat it but for most part, water chemistry is the key.
There is bacteria I've used when enlarging my pond or for new ponds that seed the ponds bacteria in 5 days. It's called Turbo 700 by Fritzyme. It had to be sent overnight packed in ice and can be refrigerated up to 3 months. It contains nitrosoma and bactrosoma which are the bacteria that thrive on ammonia and nitrites.
Well, just thought I'd share this as an FYI.
Ciao

Not sure where this will land as first time posting.

 

[sissy]

Most of my water changes come from rain and rest come from topping off the pond when it is hot out .There is a big difference in water changes from a well and from city water source .Even well water is different like mine is hard and the area is known for iron in the water .Even cities treat there water differently .