Water Changes

[bettasngoldfish]

Maria how much do you do (% wise) and how often?

Honestly I prefer to do smaller (approx 25%) weekly or every other week water changes but life doesn't always allow for that so it becomes monthly (at least during the spring thru the fall) and I tend to do 25% or more (up to 50%) if I feel it needs a large water change. I'm not in total agreement with the fact that a water change stresses fish, mine actually seem to enjoy it. I tend to think more on the lines of it being a healthy thing to do for the fish.

I can't help but think about fish in a pond without water changes are basically in a toilet that is never flushed

 

[bettasngoldfish]

This is why aquatic plantings are so important. With the proper balance of plants to fish, Nitrates will not build-up nor will heavy metals.


With adequate surface area (SSA) and a functioning Carbon cycle this should, at most, only be an occasional and passing issue, like after a spawn.


This has always been an interesting belief. Notwithstanding that the minerals and trace elements that are required for fish nutrition are contained in most commercial fish food, one would need to know not only which minerals and/or trace elements needed replenishing and the amount needed for each one, but also the levels of each the source (replacement) water contained. Otherwise it is no more than a 'crap shoot'.

It is a proven fact that any abrupt change in an aquatic environment, such as water changes, will trigger acute stress in fish. Given, in most cases, the obvious limited value of water changes, this is stress that can be avoided

Poor water quality is one of the main factors in fish disease/health issues. How do you manage this without changing water? Please don't say by adding chemicals.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Poor water quality is one of the main factors in fish disease/health issues. How do you manage this without changing water? Please don't say by adding chemicals.

Ample filtration (mechanical, bio and phyto), flow rate (twice capacity/hour), keeping feeding levels strictly supplemental to the pond's existing food chain, culturing of same food chain, and absolutely no chemicals or treatments including salt.
Never any issue with water quality, parasites or stress related illnesses.
This same regimen is followed in all of the pond's that I service with the same results.
Basically setting in place those same elements found in nature and letting Nature do the work which it has perfected over eons.

 

[Lisak1]

We've never changed our water in now 5 years with this pond. Nature fills it up, or I do with the hose. We were told by an experienced pond guy (been building and servicing for 25+ years) that you want your pond water to "mature". In his experience the most stable ponds were those that were over three years old. Once you hit that sweet spot, things would just keep humming along. He had several ponds of his own that were over 20 years old so we figured he knew what he was talking about. We'll see if the same holds true for our pond.. only 15 years to go!

 

[bettasngoldfish]

@Lisak1 and @Meyer Jordan


Do either of you vacuum the bottom of your ponds?

 

[Meyer Jordan]

@Lisak1 and @Meyer Jordan


Do either of you vacuum the bottom of your ponds?

No. Never had reason to. No 'muck' accumulation.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I'm not in total agreement with the fact that a water change stresses fish, mine actually seem to enjoy it.

Are they truly enjoying it or is what you are observing signs of agitation?

 

[peter hillman]

I think it depends on the size of the pond and the load put on the filter(s). I estimated mine at 600g I use one box filter @1050gph. Every few weeks my mechanical filter slows the flow, that's when I will pump out a few gallons and clean the filter. I believe IF I had a multi-thousand gallon pond I wouldn't do this. I have vacuumed before for a spotlessly clean pond but I'm not really into that anymore. Now I always leave some 'natural' build up on the liner.

 

[peter hillman]

We've never changed our water in now 5 years with this pond. Nature fills it up, or I do with the hose. We were told by an experienced pond guy (been building and servicing for 25+ years) that you want your pond water to "mature". In his experience the most stable ponds were those that were over three years old. Once you hit that sweet spot, things would just keep humming along. He had several ponds of his own that were over 20 years old so we figured he knew what he was talking about. We'll see if the same holds true for our pond.. only 15 years to go!

This is very true. Once you get a 'seasoned' pond the care and maintenance is simpler. A few years ago we got our first boat, spent every weekend that summer, and most of the next at the lakes. I let the yard go to heck and only took care of the pond once or twice. Yea it was worth it.

 

[Lisak1]

We do not vacuum the pond. Like @Meyer Jordan said - there's nothing there TO vacuum. We scoop the big stuff but that's it.

 

[Tula]

It's not easy to keep many plants with koi. At least, that's been my experience. I follow some koi forums and they adamantly recommend water changes, as many of their ponds have no plants.

 

[addy1]

No water changes, water stays great, every time I go to clean it there is not enough muck to mess with, no vacuuming (don't own one) I cleaned it once, maybe twice, in the last two years. That was for when the leaves blew the wrong way and ended up in the pond.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

It's not easy to keep many plants with koi. At least, that's been my experience. I follow some koi forums and they adamantly recommend water changes, as many of their ponds have no plants.

Koi can be fairly destructive to aquatic plantings. Many dedicated Koi keepers have added separate areas for aquatic plants either as a supplemental pond or as part of a wetlands filter. There are those hard liners, however, that want only what amounts to a large outdoor display tank for exhibiting their fish. Yes, these types of ponds will, over time, show elevated Nitrate levels and water changes are one of the ways to combat this. However, simple math shows that unless these water changes are massive (40%+), no real reduction in Nitrate is realized requiring these same water changes to be conducted periodically. These are, without question, stressful to the fish, perhaps even moreso than the perceived danger of elevated Nitrate. (There is no scientific data supporting the claim that a Nitrate level under 100 mg/L is harmful to fish even over extended periods of time. The fish adapt.)
As to the math involved.
Example- A pond has a Nitrate level of 60 mg/l. A 20% water change is performed which means that the Nitrate level is reduced 20% or from 60 mg/L to 48 mg/L. But one must add back in the Nitrate level of the new water which can vary from 2 to 3 mg/l for municipal water to much higher for some well water. So, at best, the Nitrate has been reduced to 50 mg/L. According to present beliefs circulating in the world of Koi Kichi this is still high. If these water changes are scheduled weekly or less frequently, the Nitrate level will have risen back to its original level of 60 mg/L or higher. Changing a higher percentage of water will further reduce the Nitrate level but in the process also drastically changes one the the pond's main water quality parameters. It is an established fact that an abrupt and major change to any water quality parameter can or will severely stress not only the fish but every other aquatic organism, but there are those that would have you do this on a regular basis.
Water changes are a holdover from the early days of aquarium keeping when the hobby was in its infancy. Aquarists have since learned the advantages of the 'planted tank' as well as other less intrusive ways of controlling Nitrate levels.
And to those that present the argument that natural ponds and lakes are flow through and experience constant water change/replacement, I would invite them to test the water being supplied to these ponds and lakes. They will quickly find that the Nitrate (and Phosphorus) level in these source waters is almost always higher than the levels in the ponds and lakes that they are feeding.

 

[snoozer]

The only water change I do is when I vac in the spring and fall. I do end up with some muck in the pond that the net doesn't get. The 3 koi I have dig the lilys up and the quarry to the west of me sends dust into the air which end up on the bottom. If I didn;t end up with the muddy muck I wouldn't do water changes. Of course my pond is 9,000 to 10,000 gallons which also makes a difference too.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

No. Never had reason to. No 'muck' accumulation.

It occurred to me Meyer after reading this post that I don't recall ever seeing you post any pictures of your pond? Perhaps you have and I just missed it? Could you refer me to a thread?

I do a drip water change system which is so much easier (turn it on in the spring, turn it off in the late fall), and virtually eliminates any of the risks associated with standard water changes, that I don't understand why more people, who do do water changes, don't also do it.. The only time I find I have problems with my water quality is in the spring, before I start the drip, when the snow and ice start to melt. I find the water PH starts to get a little acidic at that time.
I asked in the Koiphen forum why more of the koi pond owners don't do drip water changes? and the most common reason was because many of them feel because they do regular sand filter clean outs that involve back flowing and dumping a lot of (dirty) pond water and refilling, which in essence is a small water change, that they end up doing fairly regular water changes without actually scheduling specific "water changes" times.
Meyer's makes a good argument and I find myself agreeing with his points, but I've also agreed with people who make a case for not generally needing any sort of "filter" on water gardens. However it's also true that at a certain level of fish stock for every pond you'll find that dedicated bio or mechanical filtration becomes an important factor, and I believe that is also the case with regular water changes. But as Meyers has pointed out, if you do too big a water change to fast with water that doesn't match the PH, temp, chlorine levels 0, etc... of the water already in the pond, then you could do more harm then good.