Question on water change

[DutchMuch]

No, I did not read all of the articles because my focus (and the focus of this Forum) is on typical aquatic eco-systems, not planted tanks.

oh I see, so you cant learn anything, from something that doesn't have the name "pond" in it. got it. If it doesn't say "pond" then it DOESNT apply at all.

 

[DutchMuch]

Experimentation is good, but most do not want to gamble the lives of their pond's inhabitants if it can be avoided

Im pretty sure a water change (25 to 75 percent) wont kill your entire ecosystem. im almost 100 percent sure.
scratch that, 1000 percent sure.

 

[MitchM]

The reason this question can never be answered definitively is because every pond is different.
In the world of aquariums there is a much higher consensus that water changes are essential then in the world of outdoor ponds. The simple reason for this is because outdoor ponds generally get a certain degree of natural water changes in the form of rain, something that is pretty unlikely in indoor aquariums. So the people with ponds that say they never do water changes most likely are in fact getting some natural water changes whether they agree with them or not.
Also size maters, ponds tend to be much larger than most aquariums and all that extra water acts as a huge buffer against possible build up or concentrations of waste, minerals or whatever other undesirable elements that you might want to eliminate from your pond water.
The other thing is the fish that we usually keep in ponds (koi and goldfish) tend to be a lot more robust then many of the species kept in aquariums. Koi, which most people seem to thing are harder to keep then goldfish, are after all just colored carp, and carp are pretty tough fish that can survive and thrive in many natural bodies of water that many other fish would struggle to survive or simple die out. I could list a few local lakes as examples of where carp have virtually taken over the lakes and the native fish have completely disappeared. Point is, maybe neglecting regular water changes in koi ponds is like not regularly checking the tire pressure on car you use daily, can you get away with it? Most of the time you can, but maybe it's still a good thing to do once in a while, after all, if you do it right what harm does it do? Which brings us to the next point which was the original topic of this thread ....
How do you do water changes right?

Personally I believe trickle water changes are the safest way to change the water in ponds.
Don't drain the pond and do a large water change, just slowly trickle fresh water in the pond and have an area where the water can safely but slowly overflow and drain away. If you do this slowly enough you won't even need to add dechlorinator even if you have chlorine in your source water. And you don't have to worry about timers or over filling your pond because if you do it right you could basically leave it on indefinitely, in fact that's how I do my water change. I have a constant drip water source that runs from spring till freeze up. My pond stays at a constant level even though we haven't had any significant rain for 3 months and I frequently remove water when flushing the sediment in my sediment tank.

I see 2 problems with trickle water changes.

1 - Waste of resource (water) If you're on a well, it's extra work for the well pump, if you're on a meter, extra expense.
2 - Cannot be running during the winter, so if you have been relying on a trickle water change to maintain good water quality, you may have a buildup of organic material that will continue to decompose when the trickle water change is not running. If you were focused on no water changes throughout the year, your pond may be in better balance on it's own going into winter.

.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

oh I see, so you cant learn anything, from something that doesn't have the name "pond" in it. got it. If it doesn't say "pond" then it DOESNT apply at all.

Excuse me, where in my comment that you quoted is the term 'pond'?
Quote me, do not mis-quote me.

Im pretty sure a water change (25 to 75 percent) wont kill your entire ecosystem, chill.

You are "pretty sure" but evidently not certain. Even so, in your comment you are assuming some negative results are possible. I am certain that is not the intended purpose of a water change.

 

[DutchMuch]

@Meyer Jordan your plucking the tiniest of hairs from a feather.

is on typical aquatic eco-systems, not planted tanks.

Aquatic ecosystems, this applies to planted tanks, aquariums, and PONDS.

am certain that is not the intended purpose of a water change.

What is the intended purpose of a water change?
every person has a different purpose to perform a water change, and with that comes a different reason.

 

[DutchMuch]

You are "pretty sure" but evidently not certain. Even so, in your comment you are assuming some negative results are possible.

your really going after horribly small things... :/
Why would I say im 100 percent positive, that makes 0 sense, OBVIOUSLY there are possible negative results on how you perform this action. There are negative things for every thing on this earth, and around this existence. The sky Is blue and I don't like the color blue (negative result). Every time I hop in my car and drive, there is a possibility my car will somehow flip over into another lane and kill 7 people driving in a mini van. That was a dead end post so to speak (in the quotes).

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Aquatic ecosystems, this applies to planted tanks, aquariums, and PONDS.

Yes, but you truncated the statement and left off the word "typical". There is nothing typical about an Aquascape tank.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

This is really becoming quite laughable. Keep Digging!

 

[Mucky_Waters]

I see 2 problems with trickle water changes.

1 - Waste of resource (water) If you're on a well, it's extra work for the well pump, if you're on a meter, extra expense.
2 - Cannot be running during the winter, so if you have been relying on a trickle water change to maintain good water quality, you may have a buildup of organic material that will continue to decompose when the trickle water change is not running. If you were focused on no water changes throughout the year, your pond may be in better balance on it's own going into winter.

.

Yeah Mitch I don't see those as problems, not for me anyway.

1 - "Waste" is relative term. Is it a waste to use electricity to run a pump (or pumps) to circulate water in our ponds? After all we don't really need to have a pond and people without ponds might think we are "wasting" electricity. But as humans we tend to "waste" money on things that amuse us, make us happy or we feel are necessary or helpful. I'm no different I guess.
On top of that I pay a flat (yearly) rate for my water on a community well. I have a tiny lawn and moderately sized vegetable garden all of which are on automatic and efficient irrigation system that use very little water, but still probably use much more water than my drip water change system uses. My neighbors on the other hand use old inefficient irrigation systems which is like leaving their taps open and they run them full blast ,all day long. You could fill a small swimming pool (9500 gal) in that amount of time. My drip on the other hand is constant, but very minimal. it would take 197 days to fill that same pool by my calculations (2 gph drip), and it would take about 62 days to do a 100% water change in my pond. (3000 gal pond) Not that that would really be possible, but volume wise that would be 3000 gal out and 3000 gal in.

2 - First lets clarify that neither I nor most people are "relying" exclusively on water changes to maintain good water conditions, it is simply one of multitude of things you can do to help maintain good water quality.
With that out of the way I will say that my winter pond conditions are completely different than summer conditions.
In the winter I shut most of my pond down and only circulate the water through one of my pumps and my settlement tank, and of course the fish frogs and turtle become pretty inactive and don't eat or produce the waste like they do in the summer. Plants don't grow and water temps stay very low. Also in my case I tend to get a lot more precipitation in the winter then I do in the summer, much of it in the way of snow. Having said that early spring is probably the most critical time for water quality in my pond. The snow and ice build up on top of my pond tends to melt within a very short time increasing the PH and changing the temperature fairly rapidly, which is one reason I like to get the trickle water change happening as soon as possible, it slowly and gently adds a constant source of balance water.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

The reason this question can never be answered definitively is because every pond is different.
In the world of aquariums there is a much higher consensus that water changes are essential then in the world of outdoor ponds. The simple reason for this is because outdoor ponds generally get a certain degree of natural water changes in the form of rain, something that is pretty unlikely in indoor aquariums. So the people with ponds that say they never do water changes most likely are in fact getting some natural water changes whether they agree with them or not.
Also size maters, ponds tend to be much larger than most aquariums and all that extra water acts as a huge buffer against possible build up or concentrations of waste, minerals or whatever other undesirable elements that you might want to eliminate from your pond water.
The other thing is the fish that we usually keep in ponds (koi and goldfish) tend to be a lot more robust then many of the species kept in aquariums. Koi, which most people seem to thing are harder to keep then goldfish, are after all just colored carp, and carp are pretty tough fish that can survive and thrive in many natural bodies of water that many other fish would struggle to survive or simple die out. I could list a few local lakes as examples of where carp have virtually taken over the lakes and the native fish have completely disappeared. Point is, maybe neglecting regular water changes in koi ponds is like not regularly checking the tire pressure on car you use daily, can you get away with it? Most of the time you can, but maybe it's still a good thing to do once in a while, after all, if you do it right what harm does it do? Which brings us to the next point which was the original topic of this thread ....
How do you do water changes right?

Personally I believe trickle water changes are the safest way to change the water in ponds.
Don't drain the pond and do a large water change, just slowly trickle fresh water in the pond and have an area where the water can safely but slowly overflow and drain away. If you do this slowly enough you won't even need to add dechlorinator even if you have chlorine in your source water. And you don't have to worry about timers or over filling your pond because if you do it right you could basically leave it on indefinitely, in fact that's how I do my water change. I have a constant drip water source that runs from spring till freeze up. My pond stays at a constant level even though we haven't had any significant rain for 3 months and I frequently remove water when flushing the sediment in my sediment tank.

What do you estimate is the flow rate for your trickle? Is it constant (during season) or do you adjust it?

 

[DutchMuch]

truncated

16 idk these big words dude.

There is nothing typical about an Aquascape tank.

Typical is an opinionated term good job.

This is really becoming quite laughable. Keep Digging!

I see a mature reply! first time ive seen you say something like this kid arguing with an old fart lel, seems you ignored my other 3 responses and picked one out because you cant answer the others.

but seriously this reply you said here is really sad to see, because many people are interested in this argument or discussion and you think anyone who disagrees with you is wrong. Maybe they are, but a lot of people are interested in this topic, not a bad thing.

 

[DutchMuch]

First lets clarify that neither I nor most people are "relying" exclusively on water changes to maintain good water conditions, it is simply one of multitude of things you can do to help maintain good water quality.

THANK YOU MUCKY FOR SAYING THIS!!!!

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I do not need or appreciate your use of terms in referring to me.

 

[DutchMuch]

I do not need or appreciate your use of terms in referring to me.

Same to you pull out the offended card.

 

[MitchM]

Yeah Mitch I don't see those as problems, not for me anyway.

1 - "Waste" is relative term. Is it a waste to use electricity to run a pump (or pumps) to circulate water in our ponds? After all we don't really need to have a pond and people without ponds might think we are "wasting" electricity. But as humans we tend to "waste" money on things that amuse us, make us happy or we feel are necessary or helpful. I'm no different I guess.
On top of that I pay a flat (yearly) rate for my water on a community well. I have a tiny lawn and moderately sized vegetable garden all of which are on automatic and efficient irrigation system that use very little water, but still probably use much more water than my drip water change system uses. My neighbors on the other hand use old inefficient irrigation systems which is like leaving their taps open and they run them full blast ,all day long. You could fill a small swimming pool (9500 gal) in that amount of time. My drip on the other hand is constant, but very minimal. it would take 197 days to fill that same pool by my calculations (2 gph drip), and it would take about 62 days to do a 100% water change in my pond. (3000 gal pond) Not that that would really be possible, but volume wise that would be 3000 gal out and 3000 gal in.

2 - First lets clarify that neither I nor most people are "relying" exclusively on water changes to maintain good water conditions, it is simply one of multitude of things you can do to help maintain good water quality.
With that out of the way I will say that my winter pond conditions are completely different than summer conditions.
In the winter I shut most of my pond down and only circulate the water through one of my pumps and my settlement tank, and of course the fish frogs and turtle become pretty inactive and don't eat or produce the waste like they do in the summer. Plants don't grow and water temps stay very low. Also in my case I tend to get a lot more precipitation in the winter then I do in the summer, much of it in the way of snow. Having said that early spring is probably the most critical time for water quality in my pond. The snow and ice build up on top of my pond tends to melt within a very short time increasing the PH and changing the temperature fairly rapidly, which is one reason I like to get the trickle water change happening as soon as possible, it slowly and gently adds a constant source of balance water.

Right, and I'm not trying to tell someone whether or not to perform regular water changes - just trying to contribute to an informative thread so people can make up their own minds.

Too often the only reasonings I hear for doing a water change are:
-because the pond store told me to
-because I've always done them
-because a water change is like opening a window to let fresh air in
-because I wouldn't want to live in a toilet
-because I want to prevent a buildup of heavy metals

None of these are quantifiable, in other words (for non-sciency types...), there is no reason that you can write down on a piece of paper, why a water change should be done. It's only because of habit or a belief that's not based in fact.