Pondless Waterfall Build Questions

[msr0459]

Can anyone tell me if the True Union check valve threads will match the Aquascape Aquasurge pumps?

 

[combatwombat]

Can anyone tell me if the True Union check valve threads will match the Aquascape Aquasurge pumps?

Highly unlikely. But they don't need to. And the female side of a union check valve would face the wrong way anyway, I believe. PVC union type fittings are designed to be glued to pipe, so you would simply glue in a stub of pipe with the appropriate sized female adapter on the other side to attach to the pump. You may need a reducer fitting to transition from pipe to pump.

 

[msr0459]

Highly unlikely. But they don't need to. And the female side of a union check valve would face the wrong way anyway, I believe. PVC union type fittings are designed to be glued to pipe, so you would simply glue in a stub of pipe with the appropriate sized female adapter on the other side to attach to the pump. You may need a reducer fitting to transition from pipe to pump.

I was going to go with an aquascape pump and their check valve assembly for ease of install,.. but it's a bit pricey. Since I've never done this stuff. Amazon has it for 58 bucks. I'll have flex left over from my run up the hill, as I'll have to purchase 50' feet, and only need around 30. Then all I'd need to do is cut a piece to extend from the check valve down to top of pump, I believe. Feasible?

 

[msr0459]

Would someone be kind enough to tell me how large of a pump I'm going to need. If you've seen the layout, it seems now that I'll need a pretty hefty pump, given the multiple streams. Really don't want to get into 2 pumps, w flex, etc. Even after the large rocks, etc, the stream being an average of 2' or so. I'm calculated about 310 gal total for that much water in motion.

I have been told by an online sales person that if I get a pump too strong, it may drain my basin. I'm going spend a bit more and get a couple extra aquablox and go up in gallons, to be safe.

My total rise up the hill about 9.5'. I was going to go with the Aquascape aquasurge 8000, or whatever that's called. Is that overkill you think?

Thanks

 

[combatwombat]

Then all I'd need to do is cut a piece to extend from the check valve down to top of pump, I believe. Feasible?

Yep. The aquasurge 8000 pump has a 1.5" outlet, so you will need a 2" x 1.5" reducer coupling and a 1.5" female adapter.

I'm calculated about 310 gal total for that much water in motion.

You definitely want your basin to be at least 2x the amount of water in motion. 300 gal. seems like a lot for what you have going on. How did you arrive at that?

I have been told by an online sales person that if I get a pump too strong, it may drain my basin.

The aquasurge pump you're planning for is adjustable from 4000-8000 gph. You don't want to short change yourself on basin size, but you have flexibility with that pump. With any pump, though, you can place a ball valve in the system to reduce flow.

My total rise up the hill about 9.5'. I was going to go with the Aquascape aquasurge 8000, or whatever that's called. Is that overkill you think?

9.5' of static head + 3' of dynamic head for pipe and let's say another 1-2' for all your fittings, and you're looking at about 15' of head. The Aquasurge 8000 will deliver 5850 GPH at that head. For a 2' wide waterfall, I'd say that's great. Should give you give a strong flow if you want it, or lower the speed for a more relaxed waterfall.

 

[msr0459]

You definitely want your basin to be at least 2x the amount of water in motion. 300 gal. seems like a lot for what you have going on. How did you arrive at that?

I used a formula, took both the main stream 22'x2', then by .25 for average depth to get cubic ft. Did the same for stream two. 22x1', then x .25. Added those and x 7.48 for gallons. Then x 2.5, just to be sure.

Since all those calculations I've widened areas, deeper pools, etc., just no clue after I add rocks what I'll be left with. Just ordered extra "matrixblox" from a website. Allegedly same as aquablox, but less expensive. I ordered 12. So now I'll make my basin based on that.

Also figured since I've got 2 streams plus now that smaller meandering thing in the middle, I'd need more water flowing.

I do plan on having ball valves on the main spillway, and I'm putting one b4 the second stream, but just going to run a flex directly into 2nd stream at top. Will use a wye adaptor at the spillway.

 

[msr0459]

Yep. The aquasurge 8000 pump has a 1.5" outlet, so you will need a 2" x 1.5" reducer coupling and a 1.5" female adapter.

I was mistaken. I was looking at the OASE 8000 pump. The Aquasurge 8000 is WAY too expensive for me. Are you familiar with the OASE brand? I defer to you or anyone else's knowledge and experience. I was just reading some more on the OASE 8000. Seems like a quality pump, but perhaps the 8000 is overkill. I mean, I want to make sure I have enough power for my needs,... but don't want to spend more than necessary either. Thanks

 

[GBBUDD]

This is a fellow ponder on their post. they are building very much like you are and has made some progress maybe he can speak to his learnings that your asking and contemplating.

In over my head, building a huge waterfall. Need pointers.

Before you complete your edging run the falls see if anything is getting outside the liner you can always create a pool off to the side that's doing nothing but makes the mind think. That's what makes a stunning design when it engages the viewer. Or just extra liner overlaping and directing the...

www.gardenpondforum.com

 

[msr0459]

This is a fellow ponder on their post. they are building very much like you are and has made some progress maybe he can speak to his learnings that your asking and contemplating.

In over my head, building a huge waterfall. Need pointers.

Before you complete your edging run the falls see if anything is getting outside the liner you can always create a pool off to the side that's doing nothing but makes the mind think. That's what makes a stunning design when it engages the viewer. Or just extra liner overlaping and directing the...

www.gardenpondforum.com

Thanks, I'll check it out

 

[msr0459]

Hope everyone had a wonderful independence day! I read through that entire link, tons of good info and ideas.
I've got more questions, but first, there was conversation on the topic of endless loop straps to use with the excavator to move larger rocks.

I searched all over, could only find the ones with a loop on each end. The problem is, the ONLY place I could find them locally was,.. Harbor Freight, yikes!... I know, bottom of the heap in quality. At this point I really don't have time to keep searching the web and waiting a week or so. This whole project is unfortunately on a bit of a time line. At least as far as getting the larger rocks in place.

This thing is 20', and rated at 4000 lbs. I figure I can use the same method I've seen online for securing the rock to the bucket, endless loop style. I will not be moving huge rocks,..I'd say the largest would be maybe 3' x 3', give or take. Do you guys think this strap will at least hold up for this?

Thanks

 

[combatwombat]

Harbor Freight is great. But I wouldn’t trust my life underneath anything heavy being held up by something they sell.

Where are you located again? Do you have any logging supply shops around? Any ports where longshoremen work? Find out where they buy stuff. Farm supply type places are also a good bet.

 

[msr0459]

More design questions. I've ordered liner and 2 underlayment sheets for my main stream and basin, as I have a lot of random small to medium rocks in the dirt, as well as plenty of spider roots, and I've had to cut through a couple of 1" to 2" roots. So trying to prevent future punctures.

Should I place them as underlayment > liner > underlayment,... or underlayment > underlayment > liner?

Thanks

 

[msr0459]

Harbor Freight is great. But I wouldn’t trust my life underneath anything heavy being held up by something they sell.

Where are you located again? Do you have any logging supply shops around? Any ports where longshoremen work? Find out where they buy stuff. Farm supply type places are also a good bet.

South Carolina. Middle top of state. Mo such places around me. Northern Tool allegedly has a similar looking item, bit 30' long, WAY longer than I need. and 15 bucks more expensive I think. I just figured since I won't be lifting extremely heavy rocks I'd be OK, hard to know with there stuff.

 

[msr0459]

Wanted to also ask about the OASE 8000 pump. You guys have seen basically what I'm trying to design here. I'm STILL not sure what flow rate I need to be able to give me enough water for my 3 streams, 1 main, 1 smaller, and 1 meandering thing.

I'm really trying to get the best bang for my buck and not spend any more than I have to. Someone commented earlier that I likely have about 15' of head.. looking at this flow rate for that pump, will it deliver what I need?

 

[GBBUDD]

And endless sling , tube or strap is what your looking for. I have also used logging tines that work very well but they need a clevis at a minimum and chain or cable depending on your equipment.

There's a few videos out there that show the importance of the sling. And dangers.

Unfortunately it takes a little time getting use to tieing up rocks with an endless sling. A 6 foot pry bar is recommended as is some dunage to lift the rocks so you can get the sling out from under the rocks.
Placing softball sized rocks under the boulders can help in recovering the sling.
One 8000 at 15 feet of head with that chart your looking at 4000 gph not a whole lot of flow for one set of falls let alone three.