Pondless Waterfall Build Questions

[Lisak1]

You can see if we remove the pump assembly the water can flow freely backwards from bog to basin. Helpful occasionally.

 

[msr0459]

what size boulders are you talking of using and if you have those boulders already on site . take pictures of them all at least the big boys and we can help in that regard. The rocks speak, do not have a design in mind that's cemented in. As you build the boulders will tell you what works and what look natural.

so by the sounds of it you can cover the entire hill side with rubber so now it's time to create .

If you are thinking two pumps it can make your life less demanding with the falls. As any kind of debris or algae may block up your secondary stream intake. the answer could be to have them actually separate but it looks like they are one. and have the water fall to the common basin/ pump house.

can you take a pic of your back yard that will be looking at the falls to design imo how i'd make the falls. if you want the start to come out from under the deck or off to the right with the stairs what angle is looking at the area the most ?

I haven't purchased the bolders yet. I've only gone by the stone yard and started picking them out. I plan on having some delivered soon though. I also have some large, moss covered ones I spotted in my woods that I'm having the excavator guy pull out for me.

Yes, was still planning on just one pump, both for financial reasons, but less work overall... yet now I'm confused,.. why or how will debris or algae block my secondary stream any differently than if I were using a 2nd pump?, I can still use as I've yet to purchase anything regarding the basin.

One of those first pictures I posted was the view from back yard. It's from the large deck looking straight up the sloped hill (waterfall feature). They'll also be a hot tub on the other side of that tea olive tree. The main fall and stream won't be very visible from the tub, which is one reason I put the 2nd stream around the tree. It'll be in view from the tub, and I've carved out some cascades as well for more visual.

 

[msr0459]

Sorry, that was the wrong picture. That is a random rock pic from the landscape yard I was referring too. Here's the pics from the backyard.

 

[msr0459]

Also, not quite ready for the liner yet. Still have a lot of digging to do first. Cleaning up stream edges, making sure no rocks remain, etc. Really, because this is such a steep grade, the areas I've chosen to dig out are it. It's quite the task standing out there on such an incline and digging! Lol

 

[msr0459]

I know your plan involves your friend with the machine, but setting rocks can be a tedious process of trial and error - especially when you’ve never done it. This is why these builds happen from the bottom up - adjusting for the rocks usually requires the liner to be pulled back and more digging to happen behind the liner to set the boulder properly. And frequently the first choice boulder is abandoned for another that just works better.

Exactly how big are your boulders? Maybe have your buddy set them CLOSE to where you think you want them but outside the actual waterfall and we can help with some tips on moving boulders that don’t involve a machine. We (me and my youngest son sometimes - others he and one or the other of his brothers) moved lots of two and three man boulders without a machine.

He's not a friend, just a guy I've located that has an excavator. I'm sure he'll do whatever's necessary, but I'm paying him for ever how many hours he's here, up to 6 hrs. I need to be VERY planned out as much as possible because no way I can afford 2 days of his services.

I plan on using bolders that aren't TOO huge,.. the largest I saw at the rock yard was 25"x22", another was 20x20,.. from 10" tall to 20 or inches. I'm told easily 300+ lbs. I was thinking my son and I could possibly shift them around a bit once placed. I saw a guy using a flat tipped pry bar (so as not to puncture the liner) that I may could find and purchase.

 

[msr0459]

Ok - here’s how the vault looks when the pump is removed

View attachment 158707

And here’s the whole pump assembly

View attachment 158709

Pump screws in to the bottom - check valve near the top.

We actually had this rebuilt because it was way too heavy. They replaced the check valve with a smaller one and got rid of all the extraneous parts. But essentially we drop it in the vault and connect at the top.

So, under normal circumstances the flex pipe is connected directly to the pump. You've DIY'd it so the check valve and pipe reach the top of your "extended" vault,.. since I see the top of the vault lid sticking out of the basin?

 

[combatwombat]

Having the excavator is much better, but the size of rocks you’re working with should be easily moved with 2 people.

I’m 150 lbs and move rocks bigger than that all over my property alone using a large-wheeled hand truck, lifting straps, and a 5’ pry bar.

 

[msr0459]

I'm out digging currently. Here's some pics to give perspective on what I'm up against. That 1st pooling area is about to be a series of drops I think. I would definitely like there to be a long 1st drop down from the spillway, but seriously, this wall would wind up being like 4' so, because of the slope. Argh!

 

[msr0459]

And those pics still don't give a good representation of the grade. I'm guessing around 70 degrees

 

[GBBUDD]

Having the excavator is much better, but the size of rocks you’re working with should be easily moved with 2 people.

I’m 150 lbs and move rocks bigger than that all over my property alone using a large-wheeled hand truck, lifting straps, and a 5’ pry bar.

your missing one point your on flat ground he's on a steep slope.

 

[msr0459]

Taken from downhill, on the viewing deck. That wall is already 1'. Zoom in for better perspective. If I keep backing up and digging in, it'll obviously increase su substantially. Hmm

 

[msr0459]

It's 19" now, on the higher side (hill slants slightly downward to the right). I belive I'll start another cascade/drop to finish that 1st previous pooling area. That should still create a dramatic 1st drop off the spillway, no? Do you guys think it should be a deeper dig into that wall?

 

[GBBUDD]

I'm out digging currently. Here's some pics to give perspective on what I'm up against. That 1st pooling area is about to be a series of drops I think. I would definitely like there to be a long 1st drop down from the spillway, but seriously, this wall would wind up being like 4' so, because of the slope. Argh!

nothing wrong with a 4 foot cut it's over that where it can get challenging. water when it cuts and erodes the earth it is never a uniform width and depth. and with the larger liner you can get creative. from the look of your excavation by the time you add rock its going to be very narrow. if you want this to look like it was there when your house was built around it.
i'd go back and look at 7:19 and see how the pooling areas open up much wider then the falls area and usually go off to one side. then the water branches off where its off to a side and no inline with the falls above or below. The rocks can also be turned so your looking at the side of one water fall and turn the next in a direction that your now looking head on but maybe its split by a pesky rock that would wash away and now splits the falls. your W area has the idea

i know its hard work and you want to see it running but all the work now and the costs in the big scheme of things is trivial compared to you'll be looking at this for twenty years or more.

Dig larger than you want and place it along the sides making it a bit raised this will be your backfill and keep runoff from getting in the feature

 

[msr0459]

nothing wrong with a 4 foot cut it's over that where it can get challenging. water when it cuts and erodes the earth it is never a uniform width and depth. and with the larger liner you can get creative. from the look of your excavation by the time you add rock its going to be very narrow. if you want this to look like it was there when your house was built around it.
i'd go back and look at 7:19 and see how the pooling areas open up much wider then the falls area and usually go off to one side. then the water branches off where its off to a side and no inline with the falls above or below. The rocks can also be turned so your looking at the side of one water fall and turn the next in a direction that your now looking head on but maybe its split by a pesky rock that would wash away and now splits the falls. your W area has the idea

i know its hard work and you want to see it running but all the work now and the costs in the big scheme of things is trivial compared to you'll be looking at this for twenty years or more.

Dig larger than you want and place it along the sides making it a bit raised this will be your backfill and keep runoff from getting in the feature

I'd already dug out a bit wider.. but I hear ya. I'll go back after this downhill dig and widen everything. Right now I'm digging down enough to create at least a 2" creek bed overall. Right now that 1st big drop is about 20" wide. The 2nd, smaller drop is 27" currently.

 

[msr0459]

Here's the progress thus far. Notice the angle towards the way the hill slopes. Wasn't really on purpose, but then I thought that'd make it easier for the water to be kicked over to that side. Just not sure about that 1st large cut, it quite sloped. Should I level it a bit,