Pondless Waterfall Build Questions

[msr0459]

one pump split into two lines

Are you saying split into two lines starting at the pump? So 2 flex pipes coming out of basin and running up the hill? I'm not sure how that differs from putting a Y and ball valve up at the spillway, with one flex pipe coming from basin.

 

[Lisak1]

No. Split it at the top before the spillway - one line to the main stream, a second one to the side stream.

We have a similar set up in our pond and it works great. We have one main line that runs from pump to bog, but splits before it drops down into the bottom of the bog. The secondary line goes to a small side waterfall. We have one valve on the big line so we can slow the flow to the bog, which sends more water to the small waterfall. We have a second valve on the line to the small waterfall so we can adjust that flow as well. We tinkered a lot in the beginning but rarely mess with either now, but I still am glad we have the option to make adjustments. We are able to shut down the bog completely so we don't get back flow when the pump is turned off for example. Or I can turn off the water to the small waterfall (which has a biofalls on it) so I can clean the filters and still keep the pond running.

Options are always good!

 

[msr0459]

No. Split it at the top before the spillway - one line to the main stream, a second one to the side stream.

We have a similar set up in our pond and it works great. We have one main line that runs from pump to bog, but splits before it drops down into the bottom of the bog. The secondary line goes to a small side waterfall. We have one valve on the big line so we can slow the flow to the bog, which sends more water to the small waterfall. We have a second valve on the line to the small waterfall so we can adjust that flow as well. We tinkered a lot in the beginning but rarely mess with either now, but I still am glad we have the option to make adjustments. We are able to shut down the bog completely so we don't get back flow when the pump is turned off for example. Or I can turn off the water to the small waterfall (which has a biofalls on it) so I can clean the filters and still keep the pond running.

Options are always good!

Ok, I was wanting to put the Y split up at the spillway for sure. I was thinking put a ball valve only on the 2nd stream, but hadn't considered putting one on the main stream as well. Do you think that's necessary?, I mean, I do want the majority of pressure down the main stream.

 

[msr0459]

Choose your ball valves wisely - don't go cheap on those, as they will be impossible to use. Also - vaseline is your friend.

Can you please recommend a quality ball valve? Also, the pvc Y connector on the waterfall build websites seems way overpriced. 50 bucks for a pvc Y ? Aren't the ones at Lowe's or Depot the same?

 

[msr0459]

I really apologize everyone for being so needy! Lol But can I get some input on which basin "matrix blocks" everyone uses. I really like the way the Aquascape Aquablox and their Aquablox vaults fit together, but they are the most expensive of them all. I can save money on either the "Ecoblox" or the "Matrixblox" from different sites, both of which spec out similarly, but they don't have a matching vault like Aquascape does, so won't easily fit together with a different vault. Any suggestions?

 

[combatwombat]

1. Given the same overall flow rate, two pumps vs. one will make no difference in how big your basin needs to be or whether it will be depleted. The only solutions are a bigger basin or less water in motion.

2. You can tee off (with a wye) wherever you want. Might affect plumbing sizes of different runs, though. Just put it wherever it’s easiest to access.

3. Just use the dwv fittings from a hardware store. There’s nothing special about the ones sold on pond sites.

4. True union ball valves are best. Standard isn’t the end of the world. All valves will need to be exercised regularly to maintain functionality. You can replace the handle on a standard ball valve if you break it.

 

[Lisak1]

Standard isn’t the end of the world

I will heartily disagree. A valve that you literally cannot turn isn't the end of the world... but it is the end of the ability to use the valve. You might as well not have a valve on the line at all. And having to replace them is a big ole pain in the booty. Ask me how I know.

@msr0459 - find the kind that you can remove the handles. We store ours inside the garage when we aren't using them. The sun is very hard on even the best PVC, and the first thing that will break is the handle. I wish I could recall the brand we used... the second time. If I can find it online I'll come back and post it. True union makes the most sense... see my big ole pain in the booty above.

And like I said - Vaseline. Lubricate them. It makes a world of difference.

As for matrix blocks - we used all Aquascape products, but we also bought them before the price increase. We paid under half of what they are currently sold for, so I can understand the desire to try to find a cheaper option.

 

[GBBUDD]

no difference in how big your basin needs to be

well that can depend how small your going with the pump vault. One 5,000 submersible can fit in a relatively small space, half the size of what you'd need for two 2500 gph pumps . Having two smaller pumps have certain advantages . for one they will probably use less energy for 5000gph. And if one pump burns out the other will still be running. and gives you a chance to get another pump.

starting off the same water source and finishing in the same area will work yes

 

[GBBUDD]

I really apologize everyone for being so needy! Lol But can I get some input on which basin "matrix blocks" everyone uses. I really like the way the Aquascape Aquablox and their Aquablox vaults fit together, but they are the most expensive of them all. I can save money on either the "Ecoblox" or the "Matrixblox" from different sites, both of which spec out similarly, but they don't have a matching vault like Aquascape does, so won't easily fit together with a different vault. Any suggestions?

I bought three or four i forget now . Matrix blocks from different manufacturers and i found the Aquascapes to be the winner in heavy duty.
We had someone come to the site in recent years who had their pump vault fail. it was being crushed by the soils around it. I did have a few of my aquablocks that had manufacturing flaws and aquascapes shipped out replacements pronto.

 

[GBBUDD]

As far as handles go and ball valves union ball valves can be very handy. A quick shot of dry graphite and placing some plastic over them can keep them from stiffing up

Ok, I was wanting to put the Y split up at the spillway for sure. I was thinking put a ball valve only on the 2nd stream, but hadn't considered putting one on the main stream as well. Do you think that's necessary?, I mean, I do want the majority of pressure down the main stream.

Yes ball valves on everything is advisable and a check valve or two as well where you will have some head pressure pushing back the swing check valve should be able to shut down the reverse syphon effectively.

 

[msr0459]

I finally ordered the 2 stream liners. I took everyone's advice and went wider than I think I'll need. For the main stream I got a 15x25, and for the smaller stream I got a 7.5x25. Still trying to figure out the basin size, blocks configuration and subsequent liner size.

I've also been visualizing the water flow, and now am concerned the the water want make it out to the sides of those two pooling areas (the areas in the blue brackets). I think maybe the force would send it mostly through the center.

What's a remedy for that? I'm thinking if I dig the outer edges a little deeper, and have a slight hump in the middle?

 

[msr0459]

As far as handles go and ball valves union ball valves can be very handy. A quick shot of dry graphite and placing some plastic over them can keep them from stiffing up

Yes ball valves on everything is advisable and a check valve or two as well where you will have some head pressure pushing back the swing check valve should be able to shut down the reverse syphon effectively.

I wasn't familiar with check valves,..but just did a little research. I still can't understand where or why I need check valves? If the power goes out, or I unplug the pump, want the water simply travel back down into the basin?

 

[Lisak1]

want the water simply travel back down into the basin?

Yes - but it has to flow down through the pump. Not always a good idea. The water should always flow one way - up to the top and down through the waterfall.

What's a remedy for that? I'm thinking if I dig the outer edges a little deeper, and have a slight hump in the middle?

I think you're overthinking this one if you're worried about water staying in those pooling areas. Water flows downhill. All pooling areas should be flat or concave. The force of water running downhill will keep the water moving.

 

[msr0459]

I think you're overthinking this one if you're worried about water staying in those pooling areas. Water flows downhill. All pooling areas should be flat or concave. The force of water running downhill will keep the water moving.

No doubt, I over think everything! Lol,... that said, it's going to be difficult making a pooling area flat in this case, since the slope is so steep I'd be afraid the dirt preceding the area would collapse. Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to reconcile in my brain. If the water goes into a pooling area that's concave, the water would fill up that void first,.. so wouldn't there then be a possibility that concave area would spill into the next drop before the water reaches the outer edges of the pooling area? In this case, it still seems more logical to have the pooling area convex in the middle, no? I'm happy to be wrong, I just need to know why?

 

[msr0459]

Yes - but it has to flow down through the pump. Not always a good idea. The water should always flow one way - up to the top and down through the waterfall.

OK, so then where should the check valve be placed? Just before the wye connector at the spillway?