Pondless Waterfall Build Questions

[msr0459]

Sorry, I meant to attach 2.

 

[GBBUDD]

It might look very unusual and very cool if the water appeared to flow from under the deck.

At this stage and the slope your working on would it be easier to dig out larger areas giving you a place to stand and then fill it in with rock and backfill over making the actual size you want to see as a finish. this might sound like more work but its hard to stretch shorten or find that rock that will fit .
The excavator can dig the virgin ground with ease. once its disturbed then it will be easier for you to dig and back fill.

In your first picture the drop to the pool looks good but the flat pitched shallow area your making is going to give your water energy and speed. this can be hard to control and prevent water loss from splashing as well as having a hard time finding thin enough rock to hide the liner as no gravel will stat on a slope that steep with fast flowing water. If you have enough water to run over the top of the rocks it will be a force to reckon with.

 

[msr0459]

It might look very unusual and very cool if the water appeared to flow from under the deck.

At this stage and the slope your working on would it be easier to dig out larger areas giving you a place to stand and then fill it in with rock and backfill over making the actual size you want to see as a finish. this might sound like more work but its hard to stretch shorten or find that rock that will fit .
The excavator can dig the virgin ground with ease. once its disturbed then it will be easier for you to dig and back fill.

In your first picture the drop to the pool looks good but the flat pitched shallow area your making is going to give your water energy and speed. this can be hard to control and prevent water loss from splashing as well as having a hard time finding thin enough rock to hide the liner as no gravel will stat on a slope that steep with fast flowing water. If you have enough water to run over the top of the rocks it will be a force to reckon with.

While that would look unusual and cool, the conduits for the both 110 and 220 are running under there. Plus, I don't want to get much closer to the 6x6 deck posts.

I was in fact wondering about that next flatter, shallow area, following that large drop and spill. I'd already figured I'd have to use some larger rock, maybe 3 to 4" in order for them to stay in place. Sounds like I need to flatten that area more, which would create another larger drop, but also slow the water down. Remember, once the water hits that area, it'll be branching off at the bottom, with one path going into that small meandering trickle, and the rest going to the next drop.

Either way, I guess I need to make sure that any larger areas are flattened more, in order to slow the water down?

No doubt, your thoughts on the excavator doing most of this would be ideal. Unfortunately I can only afford him here 6 hours, and because of the slope, I absolutely have to use him for moving the large rocks up on that hill, as well as digging the basin after we get the large rocks up top. I literally HAVE to have the hillside dug out, and liner in place when he arrives, and use rocks to shape everything then. IF we have time after the basin is dug, ... I'll have him wait until I clean up the edges of the basin, tamp down, place underlayment and liner, aquablox, and pump vault. Back fill everthing, and MAYBE there's time for him to help place a few larger rocks onto the basin area.

Not ideal at all, but what I have to work with. Good call though for pointing out the water force coming off that first drop area.

 

[GBBUDD]

Either way, I guess I need to make sure that any larger areas are flattened more, in order to slow the water down?

yes you'd be surprised how fast and how much power that little angle and distance can generate.

You might want to have him lift a super sac be it with a yard or half a yard of gravel up onto the hill so you can haul the stone from a point and go down hill rather than haul it up that slope.

where are you located

 

[msr0459]

Here's where I'm stopping today. Nearly 4 hrs digging in 95 degrees, on 70 degree slope is about all this 64 year old can take! Lol

All 3 pools are just pretty flat now. Will deal with the last drop or so down to where basin will be tomorrow. I've also brought that smaller "meandering stream" out further, to break up the hillside visually.

Now trying to decide if I want the meandering stream and the main stream to hit the same flat, spillway rock at the same time,..or continue separately and dump into basin as two separate paths. What do you think?

The only downside is the more I separate those 2 streams, the wider the basin will need to be, thus, a wider liner. Decisions, decisions! Lol

 

[msr0459]

Dang, forgot the pics. Here ya go.

 

[msr0459]

where are you located

Lyman, South Carolina

 

[GBBUDD]

lottery says , no sale ..... a bit to far ... Though all expenses paid gets we rubbing my bead saying hmmmm... lol

 

[msr0459]

lottery says , no sale ..... a bit to far ... Though all expenses paid gets we rubbing my bead saying hmmmm... lol

Lol,.. I've no idea what you're referring to?

 

[msr0459]

How do you guys hide a wall this high? These are all a little over 2' I think. Sure, a large rock, or rocks would do it, but large rocks being also thick, or wide.. want they stick out too much, and affect the water falling from the edge above?

 

[GBBUDD]

That's what i have been suggesting to you . you seem to be digging at the width of your final product not the needed width for construction. average a 24" boulder will be at least a foot thick . going with 4 or 6 inch thick 24 inch boulders are more for stacking or have it appear to be protruding out of the ledge.

one trick to boulders is if you have a 30 inch tall drop and a boulder that has lots of character but is only 22 inches tall try placing that boulder onto a couple 10 inch tall boulders raising the rock 2 inches min higher than the soil.

Your talking a vision and trying to turn it into stone without having the stones. At least your getting a good feel for what you are going to need. I'D watch as many you tube pondless water falls that i could find by the pro's.

if you succeed this feature can be amazing or it could be a point of constant tinkering

 

[msr0459]

That's what i have been suggesting to you . you seem to be digging at the width of your final product not the needed width for construction. average a 24" boulder will be at least a foot thick . going with 4 or 6 inch thick 24 inch boulders are more for stacking or have it appear to be protruding out of the ledge.

one trick to boulders is if you have a 30 inch tall drop and a boulder that has lots of character but is only 22 inches tall try placing that boulder onto a couple 10 inch tall boulders raising the rock 2 inches min higher than the soil.

Your talking a vision and trying to turn it into stone without having the stones. At least your getting a good feel for what you are going to need. I'D watch as many you tube pondless water falls that i could find by the pro's.

if you succeed this feature can be amazing or it could be a point of constant tinkering

At first I was indeed digging to what I thought would be the final production. On your advice I have widened all those areas by at least 1' or more. At this point I can't really go much further towards the deck stairs. I could, I guess go further over toward that tea olive tree. I'll measure an average of 1' in on both sides and see where I'm at as far as waterfall width goes.

I've seen some flat rocks that should work for the waterfall to drop off of. I'm hoping to find them deep enough such that they protrude beyond the stacked wall rocks below. That would give some clearance for the water to crash below without being impeded by the wall rocks.

There's also pallets of 12 to 16" river rock, but all with flat tops and bottom, but only maybe 3 to 5" thick. I'm wondering if they would work on those walls, if I stacked them on their sides? It would hide the liner, just not as much character as stacked bolders I don't think.

Oh, and I indeed watched every pro build on YouTube I could find,..and am still watching. I'm a research fanatic. Which is how I found this forum, and has been tremendously helpful!

 

[Lisak1]

want they stick out too much, and affect the water falling from the edge above?

YES! Which is exactly why you need to dig INTO the slope. You don't set rocks in front of the wall... you set them INTO the wall. And with each rock that will be a different depth, height, etc. A flat wall with a rock set in front of it will look like a flat wall with a rock in front of it. You want that rock to look like it belongs there.

Think of rocks that you've seen used in the landscape, like outcroppings, or big boulders. They get dug into the surrounding area so you see maybe 2/3 of the actual stone - the rest is buried. If you just set a rock on your lawn it will look out of place. But dig it in and it looks like nature left it there.

Choose rocks that you can maneuver - you don't have to pick them up. You can slide them on scrap liner, sling them with scrap underlay, roll them, push them, etc. Your slope will make it more challenging, but it's not impossible if you have the rocks on the right level where you will need them. Like @GBBUDD said - have the excavator over dig, deposit the rocks at the edges and then you can pick and choose. Any extras can be used to extend the visual size of the waterfall by placing them in the landscape outside of your liner. Another trick that helps make your manmade waterfall look more natural.

 

[msr0459]

Yes, makes sense about setting them "into" the wall. But if dig out areas for said rocks to set into those walls, the top section gets shorter, which will leave less room for the flat rock above, no?

I mean, I'm visualizing that as long as the flat rock above the wall protrudes beyond the rocks that are stacked below on the wall, even just a bit, it'll give the illusion that the wall rocks are in fact protruding out of the earth. I'm I wrong in my thinking?

 

[msr0459]

Choose rocks that you can maneuver -

Agree, but I'm also concerned that, depending on the rock, if it's small enough to maneuver, it may slide down the hill. That's why I dug out areas up top, just below the spillway, to set whatever framing rocks on. It's a conundrum, but again, I may be over thinking it.