How are you dealing with Covid-19 (Novel Coronavirus) ?

[GBBUDD]

To my thinking, there should have been zero deaths of health care workers as careful as they tried to be.

No offence @watergardner butt that exactly the point People have no clue that even under clean room conditions controling a virus is very difficult they do this under negative air which many have no clue that all air is pulled into the room no air escapes but out through filters . A mask even a n9 mask while the mask is designed where its micron is small enough to trap a virus The seal around your face is NOT the pours the skin under a microscope is like the grand canyon. And i don't know where or when the last time you went to the hospital but one half of the staff is probably under weight as we are all toldwe should be at 6'-2" i should be 170pounds . well i was that 4 years ago after a surgery and if thats health good lord. THEother half is generally not a picture of health.


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[Andrew]

For how long @Andrew ? Is there a time limit or is the power endless?

Given your attitude towards my posts I suspect this is a disingenuous question. If not, most civics questions are easily Google-able. Clearly you think mask mandates are some sort of executive overreach while I think they're necessary for the portion of society that lacks in empathy. You seem to think we should stay the course while I'm baffled that 146,000 avoidable deaths haven't ground society to a halt.

I think this thread has ruined this forum for me. I've enjoyed seeing everyone's ponds and occasionally getting some tips over the last few years but what should be a place for relaxing discussion has turned into a source of high blood pressure. If a moderator sees this feel free to delete my account.

 

[addy1]

It is a issue that has no end in sight. @Andrew I hope you don't leave, just never read this thread. Enjoy the rest of the forum.

 

[Lisak1]

This has, for the most part, been a completely civil and educational conversation that has gone on for months now - which is almost a miracle in this day and age. The idea that we all have to agree or we can't continue to converse is part of the problem in our society right now. Cancel culture will take you out if you dare step outside of the boundaries. @Andrew I'm sorry that you feel this conversation ruins the whole forum for you - as @addy1 said, then don't read it. Everything doesn't have to be for everyone. Plenty of other threads that are useful and fun.

I do think the marketing behind the whole "mask up" campaign is genius - me questioning the efficacy or necessity or, goodness forbid, THE SCIENCE behind wearing a mask means I lack empathy. Or etiquette. I'm a BAD PERSON. Or I'm stupid. Or I'm a conspiracy nut. Who wants to be THAT PERSON? But who remembers a mere few months ago when those being shamed and mocked were the ones who WERE wearing masks... because those same authorities told us all that we shouldn't. It was wrong. We were greedy hoarders if we were wearing masks. Is it OK that Dr Fauci admitted that he lied about wearing masks in the beginning because he felt we couldn't be trusted - like we're all small children who need to be manipulated and tricked into doing the right thing? That rubs me the wrong way.

For the record, I wear a mask when it's required by a private business - I am completely sympathetic to the difficult position that local and state authorities have put these businesses in. They just want to be able to remain open, and I will not be the one who risks that for them. However, I will also continue to put pressure on my local and state government to function within the confines of the constitution. Because I still believe that Ben Franklin was right: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

 

[GBBUDD]

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

A THE MEN .... Lucky for Ben there are few statues of him AND NO ONE IS RIPPING HIM DOWN....

What was responsible about our response? Our leadership started off back in February by denying that it was going to be a problem, waited too long to shut down, reopened too soon, and are now (at least in Ohio) refusing to shut anything down again now that the spread is worse than ever.

Yes the economic collapse of a country should be everyone's concern, but I disagree that schools should be the linchpin in saving the economy. Aggressively getting this virus under control will help the economy more than limping along with half-measures like asking everyone to please wear masks until there's a vaccine. Congress is about to introduce a bill for a second round of stimulus checks and enhanced unemployment insurance which wouldn't be necessary if that same money had just been spent paying people to stay home for a month back in March.

The role of teachers in our society is an entirely different discussion that I suspect will get us too far off course. But I do know that the teachers my wife works with don't feel safe teaching in person, the majority of the parents in her district don't want in-person schooling right now, and Ohio schools have $300 million less to implement safety measures than they did last year thanks to budget cuts. So why should they go back? If we had to go without my wife's paycheck for a month while things shut down to truly reduce the spread then that is absolutely what should happen, but my wife is more than willing to work remotely.

Anyway, my wife's district did just announce they're pushing back the start date for students until after labor day. They still expect staff to report in person for three weeks prior to that for 'professional development', so we'll see how that goes. We're hoping it's to train teachers on virtual instruction. Meanwhile my company's employee daycare re-opens next week, but my department is expected to continue working from home for the forseeable future.

People rely need to STOP listening the media and pay attention . YOU ALL are smarter then this . do you realy call the riots the tearing down of statues peaceful ? Honestly? is attacking police for any reason PEACEFUL ? i saw a video the other day a woman panicking because of a second amendment rally. and playing f trump when she drove by and the car was spit at and whats the first thing she does yup calls the police scream white supremacy . Talk about buying into the narrative people have lost there minds. when the travel ban was inacted stooping flights to and from china he was called a zenaphobe the speaker Played IT DOWN going to china town think back now. And she said he was zenaphobic . who was wrong who screwed up ? Like lisa said and i can contest Walmart burger kings My own experience i have been in he hottest of hot zones every day since this started and still am. A pandemic is not this one person knows one person who had it a pandemic is when we all know 10 or more people who have it . WAKE we are literally 3 days away from falling on our face . Anyone who thinks this country is so bad LEAVE plenty of places to go and call home and while your there take a good look at there history. you think ours is bad Germany 40 million killed Russia 70 mil china 100 MIL japan Italy hell even here in America before Christoper Columbus THE TRIBES WERE BRUTALLY MURDERING EACH OTHER AND TAKING THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN . it was the times like the 60 with No colored in the front of the bus . Thats over and gone lets not go in reverse people Seattle has announced the reverse whites have to be sorry for who and what they are . are you kidding ? I think most here have heard of two wrongs don't make a right. especially when in the times we all know no one is better then another. You work hard you reap the rewards. If we all work together let each other talk RATIONALLY AND NOT TRY TO CONTROL each other . maybe we can all work this out and MAKE a better life for all of us.

 

[Phaewryn]

children do not need to wear masks

Experts have not said that. They said children above the age of two should be wearing masks just like the rest of us (which in any public place where you cannot maintain a 6 foot distance). Children under 2 are excepted not because of any of the reasons you listed, but because of the risk of strangulation.
https://discoveries.childrenshospital.org/kids-masks-covid/
https://www.healthychildren.org/Eng...e-Coverings-for-Children-During-COVID-19.aspx
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/daily-life-coping/children/protect-children.html

 

[Phaewryn]

Phaewryn - where do you think all this extra money is coming from? Just because teachers and students aren't in the building, they still have to maintain them. The heat was on, the grounds were maintained, the building was cleaned. You don't just shut the door and walk away. They actually spent MORE money installing hand sanitizers, doing extra cleaning, and getting buildings ready for the social distancing requirements that are being imposed.

I don't know if it is the same in other areas of the country, but in Vermont, all our schools have been doing for months is hand out free sack lunches while having teachers teach remotely (online) from home. No one is in our school buildings: they are not being heated (for one, it's summer anyway, for 2, there's no-one in the buildings). They don't need to be cleaned because no-one is there. The doors are locked, everyone is at home. There's no need for extra cleaning because no-one is in the building to contaminate it. Yes, the grounds are still being maintained: by the one employee who does that (cutting the grass and weed-eating). I've not heard of anything being done in the local schools as far as retrofitting goes so far. My local school district just now started planning at the end of June. In the video below, you can see he says they will have to order face coverings (and equipment and other stuff), so at this point (prior to the video date which was mid June), no money had been spent (on COVID-related expenses). The only school budget expenses have been lunches, basic utilities (which will be much lower since all the lights are off except for in the kitchen) and teacher salaries. Our school budget for this school year is $30,645,214 (2020 census results are not yet finalized, but looks like we're still at a population of under 5000). We have PLENTY of money. Our superintendent, when asked if we've saved any money by being closed, said, "Yeah, yeah, there are definitely some savings!" and "it'll be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars of savings." (see youtube link below)
Here's our local school superintendent speaking on budget and COVID plans:

We're not even considering re-opening any time soon, we're looking at September 8th or later (as a state in whole) at this point. Home schooling applications have already doubled from the previous year. Very few people want to risk their children's lives or futures (COVID has several long-term/chronic health impacts), and the lives and health of their entire family, just so kids can be "in school", when we're doing fine virtually. We have child care available to essential workers:
https://vem.vermont.gov/essentialpersons
https://dcf.vermont.gov/cdd/covid-19/families

Here's our graduating class of 2020:

And just because I feel like this conversation needs some feel-good vibes, here's our assistant superintendent's snow day song, that he posted last winter to announce a snow day:

Yes, Vermont is awesome, and we have houses on the market, and we would welcome you (well, most of you, maybe not @GBBUDD - you'd be happier in New Hampshire) to join us in this last bastion of (mostly) civil society in this country:
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/26-Orchard-St-Springfield-VT-05156/75484696_zpid/ (right across the street from ME, your favorite unfiltered [my mouth, I mean, not the pond] pond newb!)
Or if you need a little more house, this is right behind me and up the hill 3 houses: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/23-Highland-Rd-Springfield-VT-05156/217746801_zpid/
Perhaps you'd like to put those lazy kids to work building you some sweat equity while there's no school, if so, here's you fixer-upper: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/8-Wall-St-Springfield-VT-05156/75484650_zpid/
Maybe you need some land for some free range chickens (and free range children): https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/921-Randall-Hill-Rd-Springfield-VT-05156/115812624_zpid/
All of these are in our local fiber internet service provider's gigabit fiber to the home service area, meaning you can live in Vermont and work remotely ANYWHERE from here. Come on up! (complimentary, home sewn (by me) cloth face masks will be provided as a housewarming gift upon your arrival, so let me know what colors you like so I can have them ready!)

And on the off chance you have no idea where Vermont is, we're that little New England state on all the COVID maps - the one with the lowest COVID numbers (new cases, deaths, etc., lowest):

 

[Mmathis]

How am I dealing with the Covid-19 situation? Well, for starters, I’m very introverted so the stay-at-home orders have only been a mild inconvenience. I’m pretty much a loner, so socializing has never been something I do a lot of, anyway. Our son is grown and moved across the country, so not having to deal with school situations — and it’s just my hubby and me, our 4 cats, cockatiel, box turtles, and goldfish. I am retired, but hubby is still working.

To tell you the truth, I AM SCARED TO DEATH! Not so much scared of the virus, but scared for what’s happening to our country! We are tearing ourselves apart! It has gotten to the point where I don’t even want to watch the news any more! It’s not that I don’t want to stay informed, but....

Well, I am a little bit scared of the virus. My background is that I have 25 years of experience as an RN. Hubby is still working — as an MD. Yes, he‘s on the front line, but with an office practice. Our experience with “infection control” gives us insight into the dangers of not following certain common sense practices. When I was working, I was on an OB unit. I have had lots of experience with OR (operating room) protocol — IOW, properly fitted masks, scrubbing procedures (where you see the medical staff at the sink, if you are used to watching medical shows on TV), avoiding contaminating a sterile field.... As part of our yearly “education“ process, we had to demonstrate proper mask use — where they used some sort of meter to detect if you are wearing your mask properly.

And I am in the high risk category x 3....

I’m not trying to be a “Karen,” but I am shocked at the cavalier attitude toward masks, and those who wear them, but aren’t really “wearing them!” It does no good to cover your mouth, but not your nose. It does no good to only cover your chin. It does no good to cover only your neck. I can understand that the vast majority of people don’t have the benefit of the training and experience I have, so kinda have to cut them some slack, but there are so many folks who aren’t even trying — based on the experiences I am having in my own honetown.

But, again, my absolute biggest fear is for our country!!! If we don’t stick together as a nation, we are putting ourselves in an uncomfortably vulnerable position.

 

[ReneeFLL]

My views on masks changed when I was recently diagnosed with Stage 3 rectal cancer. I am undergoing chemo & radiation treatments now and still working in my office most days. I'm now immuno-suppressed so the wearing of masks helps me out. I'm in Texas where the rates keep going up. I only go to work and home now, my grown kids that live with me take care of shopping and any errands (and pond/bog building as well). I'm not looking to argue with anyone on the subject, just my POV changed greatly when my risks if I contract the virus changed. It is a difficult situation and there just aren't easy answers from any direction.

It's sad when it takes something like that to get people to realize that a mask will probably help them. I wish you a speedy recovery.

I have a friend who is an ER doctor. He first got covid and then passed it on to his partner. Luckily they both recovered from it with only minor symptoms. It sucks for the medical health care professional who have to deal with such stuff.

 

[ReneeFLL]

JAMA – The Latest Medical Research, Reviews, and Guidelines

Explore the latest in medicine including the JNC8 blood pressure guideline, sepsis and ARDS definitions, autism science, cancer screening guidelines, and more.

jamanetwork.com

There are a couple good articles printed yesterday on masks.

I have zero interest in trying to persuade others to wear masks ( or seat belts, motorcycle helmets etc. ) ....I can only control myself . From what I've read I believe masks provides some level of protection for both the person wearing it and those around them......and some level of protection is better then no level of protection.

Well said. I feel the same way.

 

[ReneeFLL]

Lisa its a waste of breath . Andrew is about me me me and his not anyone else . He has said so time and again . TIMES HAVE CHANGED SO WHY NOT FIND A NEW JOB WHY SHOULD EVErYONE FIT YOUR BILL. you go to the store and get food they provide a nessasary service so why arent teachers on that list. Electrical works make sure your lights are on every day that your ac works . Maybe they should stay home. Oh and the police why don't they stay home to let see they deal with junkies THESE SO CALLED PROTESTORS WHO ASSALT COPS and all the best society has to offer. there was a time not so long ago if a mob attacked the cops they fird back to many have become whipped and affraid to be called a name. GET OVER IT

You say Andrew is all about me, me, me. What about your posts? Yours are also all about me, me, me so don't call someone else out when you're doing the same thing. I'm just saying.

 

[ReneeFLL]

@GBBUDD I find your post # 688 to be rude and condescending to @Andrew . Let's please discuss this volatile subject with respect, not personal insults.

Not only that post.

 

[addy1]

Keep this thread respectful and calm. Please do not start attacking others due to their feelings, beliefs. Everybody on here has how they feel about what is going on.

This thread is just to vent, not to be attacked because of your vent. Disagree if you want, but do not make it personal .

We listened to our governor, He gave us 6 states that he said were a public health risk, said best if we do not travel there and if you do get tested and guarantee yourself. Will it happen? who knows, will some do that, most likely, will others ignore , most likely.

Masks are mandatory inside and outside here now, will all wear them, nope.

We will continue our course, everybody is infected, we wear masks, eye protection when we go into the public.

 

[JamieB]

On mask wearing: agreed with mmathis about seeing many wear them incorrectly. They do no good if they don’t cover nose and mouth with a snug seal all the way around. I see plenty of home made fabric ones that are no better than bandanas, with gaps between nose and cheeks, along the sides, under the chin. It is a risk of creating a false sense of security. And that to me is more of a threat that knowing you may be at risk with no mask but staying 6+ft apart, compared to standing closer with a faulty fitting mask.

 

[Tula]

We have contractors here today ( due to plumbing "mishap" ) and they are wearing masks. I told them I wanted to be respectful and asked if they wanted us to ear masks too? They replied it wasn't accessory as we are in our own home and they are working on a different level of the house. I believe it's important to be respectful of others...even if they're in my home....maybe especially because they're in my home.