How are you dealing with Covid-19 (Novel Coronavirus) ?

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Schools are either safe or they aren't, we shouldn't push it just to use teachers as babysitters.

Babysitters? Or teachers performing the role they have played in the evolution of our society?

Avoiding the economic collapse of an entire country should be everyone's concern. If parents can't go to work, they can't pay their bills including their mortgage and property taxes. And I'm pretty sure you can see the outcome if that happens in your own family. If taxes aren't being generated, teachers won't GET a paycheck - would that change your stance?
 
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Tell me how were we irresponsible?

What was responsible about our response? Our leadership started off back in February by denying that it was going to be a problem, waited too long to shut down, reopened too soon, and are now (at least in Ohio) refusing to shut anything down again now that the spread is worse than ever.

Yes the economic collapse of a country should be everyone's concern, but I disagree that schools should be the linchpin in saving the economy. Aggressively getting this virus under control will help the economy more than limping along with half-measures like asking everyone to please wear masks until there's a vaccine. Congress is about to introduce a bill for a second round of stimulus checks and enhanced unemployment insurance which wouldn't be necessary if that same money had just been spent paying people to stay home for a month back in March.

The role of teachers in our society is an entirely different discussion that I suspect will get us too far off course. But I do know that the teachers my wife works with don't feel safe teaching in person, the majority of the parents in her district don't want in-person schooling right now, and Ohio schools have $300 million less to implement safety measures than they did last year thanks to budget cuts. So why should they go back? If we had to go without my wife's paycheck for a month while things shut down to truly reduce the spread then that is absolutely what should happen, but my wife is more than willing to work remotely.

Anyway, my wife's district did just announce they're pushing back the start date for students until after labor day. They still expect staff to report in person for three weeks prior to that for 'professional development', so we'll see how that goes. We're hoping it's to train teachers on virtual instruction. Meanwhile my company's employee daycare re-opens next week, but my department is expected to continue working from home for the forseeable future.
 
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Good news, my results came in and I’m negative for covid. Considering how much contact I had with the one I’m quarantined due to, I’ll presume I’m probably immune to it due to my work! However, I’m still in quarantine for a few days more, and will abide by the state mandate on that. Which sucks for my coworkers as they are short handed with me out, and one other no longer working there.
 
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Good news, my results came in and I’m negative for covid. Considering how much contact I had with the one I’m quarantined due to, I’ll presume I’m probably immune to it due to my work! However, I’m still in quarantine for a few days more, and will abide by the state mandate on that. Which sucks for my coworkers as they are short handed with me out, and one other no longer working there.
that is great news jamieb
 
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What was responsible about our response? Our leadership started off back in February by denying that it was going to be a problem, waited too long to shut down
are you talking about the speaker of the house going to china town and playing down the fact that all flights from china were stopped or maybe the even better zenaphobic bs by others is that the time line
 
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I'm saying since there's conflicting studies we should err on the side of caution.

I 100% agree with Andrew on this matter. Schools are not safe. Kids should stay home and the school budgets (which cost a fortune these days so there is plenty of money in them) should be invested in making sure that all the kids have remote access from home, either home internet access, or mobile access via each kid getting a smartphone with cell service (paid for with the surplus of school budget funds we now have from schools being closed for months). How can we possibly be considering sending children back to school when every business has all their workers remote and they are BANNED from entering the buildings because it's NOT SAFE to be in enclosed spaces with people outside your family currently? Let me share this very thoughtful post by a father who touched on all the current issues in reopening schools presently. It's extremely well-written and hopefully eye-opening for some of you:
From Joe Morice, daughters in 8th & 10th grade in our Centreville Pyramid:​
To our fellow FCPS families, this is it gang, 5 days until the 2 days in school vs. 100% virtual decision. Let’s talk it out, in my traditional mammoth TL/DR form.​
Like all of you, I’ve seen my feed become a flood of anxiety and faux expertise. You’ll get no presumption of expertise here. This is how I am looking at and considering this issue and the positions people have taken in my feed and in the hundred or so FCPS discussion groups that have popped up. The lead comments in quotes are taken directly from my feed and those boards. Sometimes I try to rationalize them. Sometimes I’m just punching back at the void.​
Full disclosure, we initially chose the 2 days option and are now having serious reservations. As I consider the positions and arguments I see in my feed, these are where my mind goes. Of note, when I started working on this piece at 12:19 PM today the COVID death tally in the United States stood at 133,420.​
*****“My kids want to go back to school.”*****​
I challenge that position. I believe what the kids desire is more abstract. I believe what they want is a return to normalcy. They want their idea of yesterday. And yesterday isn’t on the menu.​
*****“I want my child in school so they can socialize.”*****​
This was the principle reason for our 2 days decision. As I think more on it though, what do we think ‘social’ will look like? There aren’t going to be any lunch table groups, any lockers, any recess games, any study halls, any sitting next to friends, any talking to people in the hallway, any dances. All of that is off the menu. So, when we say that we want the kids to benefit from the social experience, what are we deluding ourselves into thinking in-building socialization will actually look like in the Fall?​
*****“My kid is going to be left behind.”*****​
Left behind who? The entire country is grappling with the same issue, leaving all children in the same quagmire. Who exactly would they be behind? I believe the rhetorical answer to that is “They’ll be behind where they should be,” to which I’ll counter that “where they should be” is a fictional goal post that we as a society have taken as gospel because it maps to standardized tests which are used to grade schools and counties as they chase funding.​
*****“Classrooms are safe.”*****​
At the current distancing guidelines from FCPS middle and high schools would have no more than 12 people (teachers + students) in a classroom (I acknowledge this number may change as FCPS considers the Commonwealth’s 3 ft with a mask vs. 6 ft position, noting that FCPS is all mask regardless of the distance). For the purpose of this discussion we’ll say classes run 45 minutes.​
I posed the following question to 40 people today, representing professional and management roles in corporations, government agencies, and military commands: “Would your company or command have a 12 person, 45 minute meeting in a conference room?”​
100% of them said no, they would not. These are some of their answers:​
“No. Until further notice we are on Zoom.”​
“(Our company) doesn’t allow us in (company space).”​
“Oh hell no.”​
“No absolutely not.”​
“Is there a percentage lower than zero?”​
“Something of that size would be virtual.”​
We do not even consider putting our office employees into the same situation we are contemplating putting our children into. And let’s drive this point home: there are instances here when commanding officers will not put soldiers, ACTUAL SOLDIERS, into the kind of indoor environment we’re contemplating for our children. For me this is as close to a ‘kill shot’ argument as there is in this entire debate. How do we work from home because buildings with recycled air are not safe, because we don’t trust other people to not spread the virus, and then with the same breath send our children into buildings?​
*****“Children only die .0016 of the time.”*****​
First, conceding we’re an increasingly morally bankrupt society, but when did we start talking about children’s lives, or anyone’s lives, like this? This how the villain in movies talks about mortality, usually 10-15 minutes before the good guy kills him.​
If you’re in this camp, and I acknowledge that many, many people are, I’m asking you to consider that number from a slightly different angle.​
FCPS has 189,000 children. .0016 of that is 302. 302 dead children are the Calvary Hill you’re erecting your argument on. So, let’s agree to do this: stop presenting this as a data point. If this is your argument, I challenge you to have courage equal to your conviction. Go ahead, plant a flag on the internet and say, “Only 302 children will die.” No one will. That’s the kind action on social media that gets you fired from your job. And I trust our social media enclave isn’t so careless and irresponsible with life that it would even, for even a millisecond, enter any of your minds to make such an argument.​
Considered another way: You’re presented with a bag with 189,000 $1 bills. You’re told that in the bag are 302 random bills, they look and feel just like all the others, but each one of those bills will kill you. Do you take the money out of the bag?​
Same argument, applied to the 12,487 teachers in FCPS (per Wikipedia), using the ‘children’s multiplier’ of .0016 (all of us understanding the adult mortality rate is higher). That’s 20 teachers. That’s the number you’re talking about. It’s very easy to sit behind a keyboard and diminish and dismiss the risk you’re advocating other people assume. Take a breath and think about that.​
If you want to advocate for 2 days a week, look, I’m looking for someone to convince me. But please, for the love of God, drop things like this from your argument. Because the people I know who’ve said things like this, I know they’re better people than this. They’re good people under incredible stress who let things slip out as their frustration boils over. So, please do the right thing and move on from this, because one potential outcome is that one day, you’re going to have to stand in front of St. Peter and answer for this, and that’s not going to be conversation you enjoy.​
*****“Hardly any kids get COVID.”*****​
(Deep sigh) Yes, that is statistically true as of this writing. But it is a cherry-picked argument because you’re leaving out an important piece.​
One can reasonably argue that, due to the school closures in March, children have had the least EXPOSURE to COVID. In other words, closing schools was the one pandemic mitigation action we took that worked. There can be no discussion of the rate of diagnosis within children without also acknowledging they were among our fastest and most quarantined people. Put another way, you cannot cite the effect without acknowledging the cause.​
*****“The flu kills more people every year.”*****​
(Deep sigh). First of all, no, it doesn’t. Per the CDC, United States flu deaths average 20,000 annually. COVID, when I start writing here today, has killed 133,420 in six months.​
And when you mention the flu, do you mean the disease that, if you’re suspected of having it, everyone, literally everyone in the country tells you stay the f- away from other people? You mean the one where parents are pretty sure their kids have it but send them to school anyway because they have a meeting that day, the one that every year causes massive f-ing outbreaks in schools because schools are petri dishes and it causes kids to miss weeks of school and leaves them out of sports and band for a month? That one? Because you’re right - the flu kills people every year. It does, but you’re ignoring the why. It’s because there are people who are a--holes who don’t care about infecting other people. In that regard it’s a perfect comparison to COVID.​
*****“Almost everyone recovers.”*****​
You’re confusing “release from the hospital” and “no longer infected” with “recovered.” I’m fortunate to only know two people who have had COVID. One my age and one my dad’s age. The one my age described it as “absolute hell” and although no longer infected cannot breathe right. The one my dad’s age was in the hospital for 13 weeks, had to have a trach ring put in because she could no longer be on a ventilator, and upon finally getting home and being faced with incalculable time in rehab told my mother, “I wish I had died.”​
While I’m making every effort to reach objectivity, on this particular point, you don’t know what the f- you’re talking about.​
*****“If people get sick, they get sick.”*****​
First, you mistyped. What you intended to say was “If OTHER people get sick, they get sick.” And shame on you.​
*****“I’m not going to live my life in fear.”*****​
You already live your life in fear. For your health, your family’s health, your job, your retirement, terrorists, extremists, one political party or the other being in power, the new neighbors, an unexpected home repair, the next sunrise. What you meant to say was, “I’m not prepared to add ANOTHER fear,” and I’ve got news for you: that ship has sailed. It’s too late. There are two kinds of people, and only two: those that admit they’re afraid, and those that are lying to themselves about it.​
As to the fear argument, fear is the reason you wait up when your kids stay out late, it’s the reason you tell your kids not to dive in the shallow water, to look both ways before crossing the road. Fear is the respect for the wide world that we teach our children. Except in this instance, for reasons no one has been able to explain to me yet.​
*****“FCPS leadership sucks.”*****​
I will summarize my view of the School Board thusly: if the 12 of you aren’t getting into a room together because it represents a risk, don’t tell me it’s OK for our kids. I understand your arguments, that we need the 2 days option for parents who can’t work from home, kids who don’t have internet or computer access, kids who needs meals from the school system, kids who need extra support to learn, and most tragically for kids who are at greater risk of abuse by being home. All very serious, all very real issues, all heartbreaking. No argument.​
But you must first lead by example. Because you’re failing when it comes to optics. All your meetings are online. What our children see is all of you on a Zoom telling them it’s OK for them to be exactly where you aren’t. I understand you’re not PR people, but you really should think about hiring some.
*****“I talked it over with my kids.”*****​
Let’s put aside for a moment the concept of adults effectively deferring this decision to children, the same children who will continue to stuff things into a full trash can rather than change it out. Yes, those hygienic children.​
Listen, my 15 year old daughter wants a sport car, which she’s not getting next year because it would be dangerous to her and to others. Those kinds of decisions are our job. We step in and decide as parents, we don’t let them expose themselves to risks because their still developing and screen addicted brains narrow their understanding of cause and effect.​
We as parents and adults serve to make difficult decisions. Sometimes those are in the form of lessons, where we try to steer kids towards the right answer and are willing to let them make a mistake in the hopes of teaching better decision making the next time around. This is not one of those moments. The stakes are too high for that. This is a “the adults are talking” moment. Kids are not mature enough for this moment. That is not an attack on your child. It is a broad statement about all children. It is true of your children and it was true when we were children. We need to be doing that thinking here, and “Johnny wants to see Bobby at school” cannot be the prevailing element in the equation.​
*****“The teachers need to do their job.”*****​
How is it that the same society which abruptly shifted to virtual students only three months ago, and offered glowing endorsements of teachers stating, “we finally understand how difficult your job is,” has now shifted to “screw you, do your job.” There are myriad problems with that position but for the purposes of this piece let’s simply go with, “You’re not looking for a teacher, you’re looking for the babysitter you feel your property tax payment entitles you to.”​
*****“Teachers have a greater chance to being killed by a car than they do of dying from COVID.”*****​
(Eye roll) Per the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS), the U.S. see approximately 36,000 auto fatalities a year. Again, there have been 133,420 COVID deaths in the United States through 12:09 July 10, 2020. So no, they do not have a great chance of being killed in a car accident.​
And, if you want to take the actual environment into consideration, the odds of a teacher being killed in a car accident in their classroom, you know, the environment we’re actually talking about, that’s right around 0%.​
*****“If the grocery store workers can be onsite what are the teachers afraid of?”*****​
(Deep breath) A grocery store worker, who absolutely risks exposure, has either six feet of space or a plexiglass shield between them and individual adult customers who can grasp their own mortality whose transactions can be completed in moments, in a 40,000 SF space.​
A teacher is with 11 ‘customers’ who have not an inkling what mortality is, for 45 minutes, in a 675 SF space, six times a day.​
Just stop.​
*****“Teachers are choosing remote because they don’t want to work.”*****​
(Deep breaths) Many teachers are opting to be remote. That is not a vacation. They’re requesting to do their job at a safer site. Just like many, many people who work in buildings with recycled air have done. And likely the building you’re not going into has a newer and better serviced air system than our schools.​
Of greater interest to me is the number of teachers choosing the 100% virtual option for their children. The people who spend the most time in the buildings are the same ones electing not to send their children into those buildings. That’s something I pay attention to.​
*****“I wasn’t prepared to be a parent 24/7” and “I just need a break.”*****​
I truly, deeply respect that honesty. Truth be told, both arguments have crossed my mind. Pre COVID, I routinely worked from home 1 – 2 days a week. The solace was nice. When I was in the office, I had an actual office, a room with a door I could close, where I could focus. During the quarantine that hasn’t always been the case. I’ve been frustrated, I’ve been short, I’ve gone to just take a drive and get the hell away for a moment and been disgusted when one of the kids sees me and asks me to come for a ride, robbing me of those minutes of silence. You want to hear silence. I get it. I really, really do.​
Here’s another version of that, admittedly extreme. What if one of our kids becomes one of the 302? What’s that silence going to sound like? What if you have one of those matted frames where you add the kid’s school picture every year? What if you don’t get to finish the pictures?​
*****“What does your gut tell you to do?”*****​
Shawn and I have talked ad infinitum about all of these and other points. Two days ago, at mid-discussion I said, “Stop, right now, gut answer, what is it,” and we both said, “virtual.”​
A lot of the arguments I hear people making for the 2 days sound like we’re trying to talk ourselves into ignoring our instincts, they are almost exclusively, “We’re doing 2 days, but…”. There’s a fantastic book by Gavin de Becker, The Gift of Fear, which I’ll minimize for you thusly: your gut instinct is a hardwired part of your brain and you should listen to it. In the introduction he talks about elevators, and how, of all living things, humans are the only ones that would voluntarily get into a soundproof steel box with a potential predator just so they could skip a flight of stairs.​
I keep thinking that the 2 days option is the soundproof steel box. I welcome, damn, beg, anyone to convince me otherwise.​
At the time I started writing at 12:09 PM, 133,420 Americans had died from COVID. Upon completing this draft at 7:04 PM, that number rose to 133,940.​
520 Americans died of COVID while I was working on this. In seven hours.​
The length of a school day. #302​
 
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I see this as an issue of short term pain for long term gain which is now medium term pain with questionable gain. We are evolving towards long term pain with no gain. Many other nations suffered the short term pain and are now reaping the benefits. Our job here in the USA without an adequate response is becoming more difficult every day.
 
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WOW no wonder this country is so bad right now. IT WAS

So someone please tell me why a walmart employee a home depot a burger king and bank teller an electrician a garbage man ALL HAVE TO COME OR SERVE YOU WHEN YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO HELP THEM ? why the Dr and the Nurse should serve you when you are not willing to teach there kids. TO HELP THEM. this is beyond sad
 
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Schools are not safe. Kids should stay home
Then why does even the science and are experts say children do not need to wear masks? is it because they keep there hands out of there eyes and mouth " i don't think so. is it because theyare imuned nope. isit because if they fear or don't fear the latest polls or the latests death rates and they get paid more for every case nope don't think so there either. or maybe it's when people feel bad they want change . hmmm could be going somewhere now. Sorry you seem to forget or maybe you were lucky enough not to have to worry where the next job or the next meal was coming from to feed your young family. Sad very very sad
 
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Tula while offending was not the direction of the post. Do we want to live where we are fighting for our next meal . How many out here think we inthe USA are immune to having to fight and scratch and get excited when you find a rat for dinner... Who ever thought we would see mobs attacking police in the USA. AND our media calling it peaceful protests. This country for good bad or ugly has got to go back to work before it is too late. I am sure you have all seen reduced goods on the shelves at your local stores. FOR NOW IT'S MOSTLY DRY GOODS TOILET PAPER electronics. You don't fear that our food is next our lights our heat .My electric bill in ct just jumped 150 dollars with new service fee's and charges. We all lol at preppers well i fear soon they will be lol at us.
 

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I just decided to do online this year, everything was very complicated, and becuase of online I will have more time to work on my pond!
 
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I do find it interesting that I haven't heard of a single Costco or Walmart or Target shutting down because one employee tested positive - but that’s what small businesses are doing here daily. They shut their doors and proceed to "deep clean" for some random period of time and then re-open. Is is possible Walmart hasn't had a single employee test positive? If so, that’s great news. They see millions of us every day. Or are they allowed to carry on with business... which is as it should be.

@Phaewryn - where do you think all this extra money is coming from? Just because teachers and students aren't in the building, they still have to maintain them. The heat was on, the grounds were maintained, the building was cleaned. You don't just shut the door and walk away. They actually spent MORE money installing hand sanitizers, doing extra cleaning, and getting buildings ready for the social distancing requirements that are being imposed.
 
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when every business has all their workers remote

That's just not true. Millions of people have continued to go to work every single day. Millions. Every day. Amazon has hundreds of people working in a distribution center near my home - not one day have they ceased working. And that's just one example.

*****“Children only die .0016 of the time.”*****First, conceding we’re an increasingly morally bankrupt society, but when did we start talking about children’s lives, or anyone’s lives, like this? This how the villain in movies talks about mortality, usually 10-15 minutes before the good guy kills him.If you’re in this camp, and I acknowledge that many, many people are, I’m asking you to consider that number from a slightly different angle.FCPS has 189,000 children. .0016 of that is 302. 302 dead children are the Calvary Hill you’re erecting your argument on.

HIs premise is based on a false precept - his math says 302 children will die. That will only happen if all 189,000 are infected, which we know won't happen. As of the middle of July, 30 children have died of Covid in the entire country. I wish that number was zero of course, but In the same period of time 166 kids have died of the flu. How many of those kids have been featured in People magazine? And that CDR for kids is based on CONFIRMED cases... many reports are saying that the infection rates may be 10 times higher than reported. So that reduces that .0016% significantly. His whole argument falls apart at that point. You simply cannot use the "even if we save one life" argument in public policy decisions. Because again - you cannot guarantee that choosing to keep schools closed won't cost other student's THEIR lives.

If Covid is making schools unsafe for students, then by that measure, schools have never been safe for students.
 

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