Hamstermann's pond build

[combatwombat]

We've had them out in the past so I know generally where the utilities are - they're in the perimeter of the yard, mostly along the south and west vinyl fences. I won't be going deep enough in those areas to disturb them.

Call them again. They're often not that good at marking accurate locations.

If you call them and then hit something. You're in the clear. You did your part. If you don't call them and then hit something... big trouble.

 

[GBBUDD]

@combatwombat is right your dig ticket is usually only good for a couple weeks. And they are more so then not wrong. yes you may know where they marked out what but here is what you may not know. they call each of the utilities in your area they have usually 48 to respond IF they do not then you have the right to start digging and IF you do strike something the liability SHOULD be on them . If you dont call and find that unmarked utility your screwed. both in fines and any damages you may cause others due to the strike. its free make the call
+

 

[Lisak1]

It’s amazing how how far off they can be to be honest. We watched them move out electric lines (into my neighbors yard) and three months later when we wanted to get some trees planted the landscaper refused to dig where we wanted them because they marked the electric lines as still being on our side of the lot line. Had to plant those suckers myself!

I understand why they wouldn’t dig - for all the reasons mentioned. It was just funny since we were 100% sure they would never hit those lines.

 

[GBBUDD]

It’s amazing how how far off they can be to be honest. We watched them move out electric lines (into my neighbors yard) and three months later when we wanted to get some trees planted the landscaper refused to dig where we wanted them because they marked the electric lines as still being on our side of the lot line. Had to plant those suckers myself!

I understand why they wouldn’t dig - for all the reasons mentioned. It was just funny since we were 100% sure they would never hit those lines.

no offence when it came to insurance liability and safety Iy would be rare to take a home owners word for what was berried where

 

[Pablo]

Just spitballing here, maybe you could have the bog area be a triangle, the back right corner. That would just be one bog area rather than two. Might avoid some of the issues @GBBUDD brought up. Might look nice to have a waterfall coming out from that angle. I know you like the idea of the bog along the fence so maybe it is not an option. You definitely have more than enough bog area with your current plan, to meet what most people consider a good size bog is you would only need about 70 square feet.
Also, noticed you had written on your plan the approx gallons for the pond and bog. Just know that it will be significantly less than that. Once you have shelves and stones the volume is cut down a lot. I used those online calculators also but they are just rough estimates. One calculator I found did account for stones but even they say it is still a rough estimate. The calculators assume straight up and down walls and bottom, and you know this because when you go to a calculator for pools you get the same number of gallons. I thought I was going to have about 4500 gallons, but ended up about 3700 gallons (I used a meter on my faucet when filling the pond). My shelves ended up being wider in a few spots than I originally planned. May not seem like a big deal but it does factor into your calculations for what size pump and how many fish you plan to have.

 

[hamstermann]

Wow, my phone takes crappy video. And I probably didn't explain things well, but hey now you know what I sound like

Here's a hopefully better explanation than in the video:

We dug up the sprinklers in the middle of the pond area and removed them, terminated the line that supplied them because there was still one sprinkler on it, added a gear driven on the line in another place, extended the trench I dug before so we could move the front yard sprinkler supply line for the front yard 6 inches or a foot closer to the house, filled in the trench again and tried to put back the good grass while getting rid of the wider-leaved weedier stuff. Part of moving the sprinkler supply line involved tunneling under the garden rock wall - thank goodness my cement and grout held and it didn't topple in on us!

NOT advisable it will probably work its way behind the liner and create a hipo down the road. A hippo will ruin your day .

That is certainly something to think about. My town only gets 22 inches of water per year and our water table isn't high - I think I remember seeing that wells are 300+ feet deep, so I don't think it's as much a concern for me as it would be for folks on the coast or back east, but it's worth checking into so I asked on a local Facebook group if anyone has had to deal with hippos. I'll let you know what they say.

do the test you will see measure out the test you make with shelves and a bog make it out of plywood take the measurement add your foot to each side ":" this is where the internet has advice from every clown out there " the extra foot only works for a simple design . this is not you ... make your cloth or what ever you use a foot longer by scale. you will see it is not advisable

The more I think about that test, the more anxiety I get. I'm not sure why, but it "wrinkles my rain man" like a co-worker of mine used to say.

Call them again. They're often not that good at marking accurate locations.

If you call them and then hit something. You're in the clear. You did your part. If you don't call them and then hit something... big trouble.

I took your advice and called them. The only 2 utilities (Xfinity and CenturyLink) that are in the backyard are the ones who didn't respond. Comcast didn't make a big deal out of of it when my fence installers hit the line a few years ago. Like you said, I called and they didn't respond so if it gets hit it's not my fault.

Just spitballing here, maybe you could have the bog area be a triangle, the back right corner. That would just be one bog area rather than two. Might avoid some of the issues @GBBUDD brought up. Might look nice to have a waterfall coming out from that angle. I know you like the idea of the bog along the fence so maybe it is not an option.

Yeah, I really want to hide the vinyl fence. It's not necessarily ugly, I just prefer seeing plants instead of plastic.

I thought I was going to have about 4500 gallons, but ended up about 3700 gallons (I used a meter on my faucet when filling the pond).

Interesting. How expensive was that meter? I guess that's a good reason not to buy the pump until the pond is filled but I really don't want to deal with water that doesn't move. There are enough mosquitoes around because of some government-run ponds nearby that don't have much flow. Maybe it could get to me fast enough though. How long can water sit before it starts stinking and breeding skeeters?

As far as liner type, I'm still not married to any one type of liner - still weighing pros and cons. What I'm hearing is that hdrpe's stiffness makes it hard to fold and have it stay folded and that is lessened by curves. Would it cut out the need for a lot of extra liner if I rounded the corners? Rounding them would make it look more natural anyway.

And it sounds like the EPDM liner needed would be much smaller than an hdrpe for the same sized pond.

I think I read that @Lisak1 has a pe liner too. What's your experience been, Lisa? Or was it @bagsmom ?

 

[GBBUDD]

hdpe or edpm both will be very close to the same size hdpe may require an extra foot or so . its the working with the liners that's the big differrance. look it this way the only place you will find where a pro uses hdpe on a pond like ours is a hobbyist i have never seen a pro use anything else . WITH the exception of a farm pond that is flat and gradually angles toward the bottom. Addy and cw are the only garden ponds i have seen use hdpe.

 

[GBBUDD]

ANOTHER MATRIX POSSIBILITY folding heavy duty 4x4 pallet boxes

 

[hamstermann]

ANOTHER MATRIX POSSIBILITY folding heavy duty 4x4 pallet boxes

Like this?

 

[GBBUDD]

DON'T KNOW WHAT THERE specs are but i imagine if your weights aren't a big deal as you can't get a car in the back yard it may work for you

 

[Pablo]

Interesting. How expensive was that meter? I

It was only $26 from amazon, a RESTMO water flow meter, it is a little battery operated thing you attach between the faucet and hose. Not sure you really have to wait to order the pump until you know the exact number of gallons because the pump has a range of operating conditions. It was just to make you aware that the online pond volume calculators are just a rough gauge of how many gallons you have. From what I have seen from people's posts, people seem to overestimate how many gallons they will have in their pond and underestimate how much head the pump will have to deal with. Of course there are the exceptions, just going by what I have seen posted.

 

[hamstermann]

DON'T KNOW WHAT THERE specs are but i imagine if your weights aren't a big deal as you can't get a car in the back yard it may work for you

Thanks. it was the 4x4 in your description that I was confused about. did you mean 4 feet by 4 feet or that they are used to ship 4-inch by 4-inch posts to home centers or something else?

It was only $26 from amazon, a RESTMO water flow meter, it is a little battery operated thing you attach between the faucet and hose. Not sure you really have to wait to order the pump until you know the exact number of gallons because the pump has a range of operating conditions. It was just to make you aware that the online pond volume calculators are just a rough gauge of how many gallons you have. From what I have seen from people's posts, people seem to overestimate how many gallons they will have in their pond and underestimate how much head the pump will have to deal with. Of course there are the exceptions, just going by what I have seen posted.

Thanks! I put it on my amazon list of stuff to buy for the pond. That makes sense about shelves and rock taking up some of the volume. My calculations were just length x width x depth x 7.5 gallons per cubic foot, so you're right that they didn't make allowances for shelves and rock.

Thinking about calculating total dynamic head for the bog - I get that length of run and lift in the pipe contribute to dynamic head, but would/should the height of the rising water in the bog also factor into the calculation once the water leaves the piping? The water wouldn't rise without the pump pushing it so I would think so but I don't often hear about that being part of the calculation. and if that's the case, do I include the length of the bog, or only the length of the pipe until it terminates in the bog because there's more friction in the smaller space of the pipe than in the larger space of the bog?

 

[GBBUDD]

4X4 Is the size of the bin 4 foot x 4 foot its a pallet for loose items not in a box like shovels or fertilizers

 

[Pablo]

Thanks. it was the 4x4 in your description that I was confused about. did you mean 4 feet by 4 feet or that they are used to ship 4-inch by 4-inch posts to home centers or something else?


Thanks! I put it on my amazon list of stuff to buy for the pond. That makes sense about shelves and rock taking up some of the volume. My calculations were just length x width x depth x 7.5 gallons per cubic foot, so you're right that they didn't make allowances for shelves and rock.

Thinking about calculating total dynamic head for the bog - I get that length of run and lift in the pipe contribute to dynamic head, but would/should the height of the rising water in the bog also factor into the calculation once the water leaves the piping? The water wouldn't rise without the pump pushing it so I would think so but I don't often hear about that being part of the calculation. and if that's the case, do I include the length of the bog, or only the length of the pipe until it terminates in the bog because there's more friction in the smaller space of the pipe than in the larger space of the bog?

I am definitely no expert on calculating head. Dont think you have to worry about the pushing of the water in the bog. The water just naturally rises until it reaches its point of least resistance. I think of it liking filling a bathtub, not like you have to keep increasing the flow from the faucet to keep the water rising to the top. That is about as technical I can get on it, lol. I do know with head calculations you take into account the length of the pipe run, the height it is going to and any pipe elbows. If I am not mistaken I think your area for the pond is pretty flat so you will not have to worry about height that much. Others here are much better at calculating all that, I kept my setup pretty simple so I did not have to worry about it as much as some people have to.

 

[GBBUDD]

@hamstermann your noy going to have to worry much about head pressure , where your not thinking about building up your bog to make a nice waterfall and your bog wraps around two sides of the pond your push isn't going to be a lot either. if you go up over the side of the bog with the return your head will still be low but once you get to the bottom your more like a leveling pipe water will do half the work for you. but what i would advise is going with a centipede as that will let water move slowly and alow for settling . but like i have said before i'd also do two bogs not one as it will be impossible to clean on a l shape