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I'm sorry for your loss. Your mom and your family will be in my prayers.
Hamstermann's pond build
- Thread starter hamstermann
- Start date
Sorry I've not been as active on the forums. Life happens, you know?
Pond Update: You can see where I've started building a path in front of the fence. it's packed road base and weed block cloth to various depths along there. I'll put a retaining wall separating the lawn (eventual pond area, hopefully) and the path from each other, then bring the path height up even with the top of the weed block cloth with tightly packed chat. I was also planning to make the retaining wall top even with the top of the existing rock wall to give a little bit of height to the bog area and provide a nice but small drop into the pond.
But...well.....crap. When I asked for Utility locating in November, the two that didn't respond were the two that had lines in the backyard. Comcast and CenturyLink. I had them come again because I knew from past location requests that the Comcast lines were under where I'm building a rock path in front of the fence and I knew that the comcast line was somewhere close to that, but every time I've called before they've only indicated the line close to the path for Century Link. They never indicated that line down the middle of the property.
Of course the locating service can't tell me how far down the lines are either.
So now my choices are:
1) make the pond only go halfway to the fence, stopping it at or before that never-before-revealed orange line and turning it into more of a wide stream than a pond.
2) dig the full depth of three to three and a half feet in the clear area and then very carefully dig towards the path/fence until I find the line in hopes that I can still make a good sized pond
3) dig in the clear area, mound the dirt from there onto the area where the wires are indicated and make a much higher bog area there, possibly with a bigger waterfall drop, which I don't love because I don't want a lot of noise - just the low bass of a smaller waterfall.
I'm also finding that I've got quite the dilemma with pond shape. As some of you pointed out, a square pond bordered by an L-shaped bog isn't very natural looking and that's bugging me more than it did when planning initially. I do have these goals that I still want to meet though:
1) Block the view of the south fence where the dirt path is.
2) be able to flip vines from plants growing in the bog over the existing rock wall so that the fruits and veggies on them can rest on soil instead of gravel and have less chance of rotting due to wet ground
3) have an ecosystem/garden based pond, not so much a swim/rec pond (filters submerged and pumping water into an upflow wetland where I can have fun growing different veggies, fruits, and flowers)
4) have the pond at least big enough that we can get in and cool off if we want
5) have the pond deep enough and keep enough water flowing that if we get below-zero in the winter the fish will still have water to swim in.
I've always planned an intake bay but I'm wondering if I can get by with just a skimmer instead.
I kind of like the idea of disregarding the "Build as big as you can or you'll regret it" advice since money is tighter than I expected and I'm still digging without machinery, but I do still want it to be big enough for water quality stability, a bog garden, and to get in and cool off when it's hot. Plus it makes that space awkward if we only use part of it. On the other hand, maybe I could put in some good shrubs or something to look nice and take up some space.
What would you do in my case? Anyone want to make suggestions on a design, preferably with pictures so I can see what you're thinking?
Pond Update: You can see where I've started building a path in front of the fence. it's packed road base and weed block cloth to various depths along there. I'll put a retaining wall separating the lawn (eventual pond area, hopefully) and the path from each other, then bring the path height up even with the top of the weed block cloth with tightly packed chat. I was also planning to make the retaining wall top even with the top of the existing rock wall to give a little bit of height to the bog area and provide a nice but small drop into the pond.
But...well.....crap. When I asked for Utility locating in November, the two that didn't respond were the two that had lines in the backyard. Comcast and CenturyLink. I had them come again because I knew from past location requests that the Comcast lines were under where I'm building a rock path in front of the fence and I knew that the comcast line was somewhere close to that, but every time I've called before they've only indicated the line close to the path for Century Link. They never indicated that line down the middle of the property.
Of course the locating service can't tell me how far down the lines are either.
So now my choices are:
1) make the pond only go halfway to the fence, stopping it at or before that never-before-revealed orange line and turning it into more of a wide stream than a pond.
2) dig the full depth of three to three and a half feet in the clear area and then very carefully dig towards the path/fence until I find the line in hopes that I can still make a good sized pond
3) dig in the clear area, mound the dirt from there onto the area where the wires are indicated and make a much higher bog area there, possibly with a bigger waterfall drop, which I don't love because I don't want a lot of noise - just the low bass of a smaller waterfall.
I'm also finding that I've got quite the dilemma with pond shape. As some of you pointed out, a square pond bordered by an L-shaped bog isn't very natural looking and that's bugging me more than it did when planning initially. I do have these goals that I still want to meet though:
1) Block the view of the south fence where the dirt path is.
2) be able to flip vines from plants growing in the bog over the existing rock wall so that the fruits and veggies on them can rest on soil instead of gravel and have less chance of rotting due to wet ground
3) have an ecosystem/garden based pond, not so much a swim/rec pond (filters submerged and pumping water into an upflow wetland where I can have fun growing different veggies, fruits, and flowers)
4) have the pond at least big enough that we can get in and cool off if we want
5) have the pond deep enough and keep enough water flowing that if we get below-zero in the winter the fish will still have water to swim in.
I've always planned an intake bay but I'm wondering if I can get by with just a skimmer instead.
I kind of like the idea of disregarding the "Build as big as you can or you'll regret it" advice since money is tighter than I expected and I'm still digging without machinery, but I do still want it to be big enough for water quality stability, a bog garden, and to get in and cool off when it's hot. Plus it makes that space awkward if we only use part of it. On the other hand, maybe I could put in some good shrubs or something to look nice and take up some space.
What would you do in my case? Anyone want to make suggestions on a design, preferably with pictures so I can see what you're thinking?
Glad to see you back here, was wondering how things were going. Sorry to hear you have come across these roadblocks. I think everyone here can relate to having bumps in the road on their builds (all the best laid plans. . .). I guess I would be nervous about the digging up close to the wire, although you are the most meticulous digger I have seen, lol. I don't suppose having the company move the wire is an option.
As far as the shape, you can do a lot of things to curve the corners a bit, maybe jut out a bit here and there. If it is still fairly square at the end you could maybe put a branch kitty corner that kind of hides the corner. I think you will figure that part out.
You definitely do not have to have an intake bay, even though they are nice and many people swear by them. Plenty of people have skimmers, I have the helix skimmer. The problem for you though is that adding a skimmer adds to the cost. There are some diy skimmers, I think ozponds has videos of them.
I am sure others will chime in with better ideas than me. Good luck
As far as the shape, you can do a lot of things to curve the corners a bit, maybe jut out a bit here and there. If it is still fairly square at the end you could maybe put a branch kitty corner that kind of hides the corner. I think you will figure that part out.
You definitely do not have to have an intake bay, even though they are nice and many people swear by them. Plenty of people have skimmers, I have the helix skimmer. The problem for you though is that adding a skimmer adds to the cost. There are some diy skimmers, I think ozponds has videos of them.
I am sure others will chime in with better ideas than me. Good luck
YShahar
Enthusiastic duct-tape engineer
Well, usually when faced with a rectilinear plot, the design advice is to use curved garden paths and plantings to break up the straight lines. So applying that principle to your yard, I would definitely make the pond an oval shape, except where it butts up against the patio. Then you could locate the bog and stream in the back corner of the property. That would also mean you wouldn't need to dig where the utilities are located, since that part of the system would be above ground (of course, if the utility companies need to dig up their lines in the future, you'd have to move some rocks and disassemble part of your system, but I doubt they have to dig things up all that often).
So how about something like this:
To keep costs down, you would probably have to use smaller rocks than this model shows, but you can do a lot with perspective. I would also widen the pond out toward the part of the yard not shown in your photo, so that it's a gourd shape, with the deeper end in the wider section. To have room to sit in it on hot days, you don't really need much more than the size of a large jacuzzi.
I'll see if I can come up with some other ideas. Need to see if there are more photos earlier in this thread that I can use...
Thanks for the encouragement and ideas, @Pablo!
Wow, @YShahar , I love that picture! AI can do some really cool things. Did you use ChatGPT4? I love the idea of a stream leading to a jacuzzi sized pond too. Using moss and groundcovers to fill in large areas is a really cool idea too - that way I don't have as much to mow and it still looks soft and green. Pablo's suggestion of finding a way to incorporate a fallen tree trunk or log is something I was thinking about - like having the water drop over it so it's part of the waterfall.
It's good to feel inspired again instead of frustrated - thank you both! If anyone else has ideas I'd love to hear them as well.
For base waterfall dropping into 8 inches of water or more. Depending on how high the waterfall is.
I
there's advantages to skimmers . They have a means of mechanical filtration. And though they are not cheap aquablocks and and pump vaultes add up as well.
Here's something I have not seen mentioned yet are the Comcast and other are these feeds to your house. Or just one neighbor or is this a feed for the development and or the area.
Big question is is there an easement on your property. That would mean no Building in that area no digging and no structures or obstructions now a pond might be considered landscaping which would mean exempt for the easement. Either way I would call the town or dig up you deed and see if there is any mention of such. The last thing you need is to keep digging have someone from the town or utility pick up on the work. Have them start the red tape knowing your in violation but they move so slow your done building 6 months later when their cease and desist order comes out.
As the the design . I'm always full of ideas if I had a straight line from the patio I would cut in a boulder or two to break up the straight line . And in the middle or off center have a planting area jog out into the pond. This could be a great spot for pitcher plants something that has color all year. Will add a little height but can easily be viewed between the shoots to the fish.
In the corners I would make the pond rounded but in the corners I would use up all the space I had and make 6 to 12 in deep shelves again for plants , plants that won't need watering because they are in the pond . I'm all for less maintenance yet get so much visually from this effect.
Same with the bog the bog all too often even my own has straight walls. BORRING. JOHN J From modern aquascaping probably does this the best by building the rectangle up to about a foot from the surface then making the shelf so boulders and plants can make the eye popping look of plants inside and out of the rock.
I would look at instead of a 90 degree corner making it round and in that round would be my main waterfall that also has these planters off to both sides. Some plants love a light splash or mist on them and seeingas the base is actualy in the pond you won't loose any water.
YShahar
Enthusiastic duct-tape engineer
Nah, that was just plain old Photoshop, though I admit to being pretty good at working with multiple layers and blend modes. If you can get me a good photo of your yard from the viewing area, plus maybe an overhead shot, I can put together something much more realistic looking!
Cheers!
That really is amazing how you did that. Should have had you do that for my pond lol
YShahar
Enthusiastic duct-tape engineer
I keep a folder of my favorite build photos around, just to have stuff I can adapt. If a friend wants a water feature, I can usually put together a composite so they can see what different features would look like.
But these days, the AI programs can really do a better job of all this. I'm just old fashioned.
I tried an AI picture using Dall-E on discord last summer. I failed miserably, lol. I used a picture I had and put in koi pond for the text, it came out very strange. It was very early on with the AI. Probably a lot better now.
Okay, @YShahar, here are the different viewing angles you wanted.
From the deck off my 2nd floor bedroom:
From Our dining room window:
From Our Back Patio:
From our basement Window (excuse the dirty glass please - all the dirt blows against it and we almost never clean it.)
From my second-floor bathroom window:
walking in the west gate to our backyard:
From the kitchen window:
An overhead shot from last September before we moved the chicken coop or started digging. We'd keep the pind in the area directly below the cement patio in the picture. I told my boys I'd leave them at least some room to run.
From the deck off my 2nd floor bedroom:
From Our dining room window:
From Our Back Patio:
From our basement Window (excuse the dirty glass please - all the dirt blows against it and we almost never clean it.)
From my second-floor bathroom window:
walking in the west gate to our backyard:
From the kitchen window:
An overhead shot from last September before we moved the chicken coop or started digging. We'd keep the pind in the area directly below the cement patio in the picture. I told my boys I'd leave them at least some room to run.
YShahar
Enthusiastic duct-tape engineer
Perfect! I'll see what I can come up with tomorrow, as it's already after 22:00 here, and I should be getting off the computer.
Stay tuned!
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2021
- Messages
- 599
- Reaction score
- 723
- Location
- Tampa, FL
- Hardiness Zone
- 9b/10a
- Country
THAT is gorgeous, in my opinion!
YShahar
Enthusiastic duct-tape engineer
Well, it took some time, as Friday I never got to sit down at my computer at all (got some work on my stream done though!) And today I had to spend most of the day on a side trip up to Jerusalem.
So here are a couple of sketches using your yard plan.
1. Here's what I would do if this were my build and I had unlimited funds:
This puts your plunge pool / fish pond right under the balcony. The downside, of course, is that you'd need to set up temporary supports for the balcony as you inserted the liner under the concrete supports. Er, not going to happen? OK, so that brings us to...
2. A more realistic plan:
Here, the stream and its pooling areas occupy a fair bit of the garden, while still leaving room for the chicken coop, trampoline, and the side yard for kicking a ball around. Plus, you've got lots of water for the kids to play in, learn about nature from, and generally enjoy discovering.
And here's how this might look from your basement window:
Wow, that's beautiful. I can't spread out quite that much but it gives me some great inspiration for coming up with a plan. I'm thinking of putting the waterfall/biofalls at the head of the stream and have the stream and pooling areas be deep enough to be both the bog and stream, then have another drop into the pool. I also like your idea of shrubs and ground covers along the sides of the water areas, planted in dirt.
I definitely need to show my wife your plan though. It's awesome.
