Hamstermann's pond build
- Thread starter hamstermann
- Start date
Cool, I'll check it out. Thanks!
a foot thick is fine if water levels on both sides are close to the same elevation. If you have stable compact soils, however if you haver sandy soil a foot is far from enough. If you do have decent soils but you disturb the natural compaction then it may not be enough .
It also depends how much water ":How wide and how long is the pond" and depth of water your trying to hold back
I was thinking about this, too. My soil is like concrete. Also, with a thicker wall, you have the opportunity to turn that into a bit of a stream, with more rocks to twist and turn around.
My soils are loam on top and clay under that. if it stays moist it holds its shape really well. If it dries out, it's like concrete and then it REALLY holds its shape well and gets hard. I kind of expect that to happen as I'm thinking the excavation will take weeks or months.
I'm also shooting for only between 6 inches and a foot for a drop. I don't want roaring raging waterfalls, just enough to add some aeration and a nice, gentle sound. I don't have a firm plan on the length width and depth anymore. We'll see how it looks when I run out of energy and desire to dig.
Right now I'm thinking 3-4 feet deep by about 20 feet long and maybe 12 to15 feet wide, with a 3 feet wide by 3 feet deep bog wrapping around it on 2 sides. Some lasers, like the ones in the transits that Modern Design Aquascape and Team Aquascapes use, are like you're describing. There are also some that I assume are less expensive and project a visible red line that gets dimmer as you get further away. That visible kind is the kind we were talking about.
My soil can be like yours if it dries out. Streams look really cool, but in my case they require space for berms on either side and I'd rather use that for swimming space for the fish and/or soaking space for people.
I'm also thinking that a lot of the space in the pond will/might be used up by shelves, so the pond won't have as much swimming space for people as one might expect. Especially if I put shelves on the side that my cement patio is on so that I can try to avoid sinking there without having to spend money on a block retaining wall.
That is a good advantage about the fish not going over the edge, but I prefer intake bays. I'd rather scoop up leaves with a net than pick them out from between rocks. Plus with an intake bay, if they fish is small enough to swim in, they're small enough to swim out. and if they're too big to swim in, it won't be a problem in the first place. The downside with intake bays is that the water level doesn't stay constant, but it doesn't stay constant in nature either and fish do okay there.
This pond is pretty close to what I want to do, with the sitting spaces they describe in the pond and I have the same (or worse) access limitations they had:
The gravel area it shows very briefly at 3:56 is just walking/open space, but I would have that be a bog that wraps around the pond and is filled with irises, impatiens, hostas, etc., and maybe some pitcher plants. If I were to create a stream, it would have to be VERY short and have lots of little drops instead of a big one like they have.
But as I said, plans are constantly changing and from what I see on the build videos, they even change as you're digging and building so who knows what I'll end up with. I have lots of time to research and tinker with ideas over the winter because pretty soon the ground will be too frozen to dig. And I'm a wimp and don't want to be outside much in the cold.
The gravel area it shows very briefly at 3:56 is just walking/open space, but I would have that be a bog that wraps around the pond and is filled with irises, impatiens, hostas, etc., and maybe some pitcher plants. If I were to create a stream, it would have to be VERY short and have lots of little drops instead of a big one like they have.
But as I said, plans are constantly changing and from what I see on the build videos, they even change as you're digging and building so who knows what I'll end up with. I have lots of time to research and tinker with ideas over the winter because pretty soon the ground will be too frozen to dig. And I'm a wimp and don't want to be outside much in the cold.
Definitely a good idea to take your time and think about the design. I had started the thought of having a pond last year. I just cleared the area in the Fall, but used the winter to research and think about plans. Yes, the plans definitely change before, during and after the build. You see that with everyone's builds. So many variables when you get into a project like this and then you realize you want to tweak something here or there.This pond is pretty close to what I want to do, with the sitting spaces they describe in the pond and I have the same (or worse) access limitations they had:
The gravel area it shows very briefly at 3:56 is just walking/open space, but I would have that be a bog that wraps around the pond and is filled with irises, impatiens, hostas, etc., and maybe some pitcher plants. If I were to create a stream, it would have to be VERY short and have lots of little drops instead of a big one like they have.
But as I said, plans are constantly changing and from what I see on the build videos, they even change as you're digging and building so who knows what I'll end up with. I have lots of time to research and tinker with ideas over the winter because pretty soon the ground will be too frozen to dig. And I'm a wimp and don't want to be outside much in the cold.
The videos are great for information. Just dont get discouraged during your build when things do not go as smoothly or quickly as the videos show. Have to remember they have crews working all day on those projects with proper heavy equipment to help. And for the love of God I dont think the dirt they work in ever has a stone bigger than a pea, lol. Changes do happen during the build and you just roll with them and you realize that it actually turns out better than you originally thought it would. Trust me, your family, friends and neighbors are all going to be impressed, people taking on these kinds of projects themselves are not that common so people do appreciate the effort you put into it. My father in law was cute, in all seriousness he was asking if there was somewhere I could enter my pond into some sort of competition. I told him you have no idea how elaborate people get with their ponds, mine is as basic as they come, gives you an idea of how people are easily impressed.
Thanks, I appreciate the encouragement!
They don't get dimmer for a very very long distance but in direct sun yes they can be hard to see smoke and shade can fix that. yes i know what a torpedo laser level is. easiest way to do that is to get some stakes and go out at twilight and set bench marks around the pond that way you can use a 4 foot level or so to level across from your multiple bench marks
@addy1 or another admin, can you move this to the build forum and rename it "Hamstermann's pond build" or something similar? It's probably best for documentation if I just put everything for my planning and build in one thread instead of multiples that reference each other.
New frustration:
Using a 30x30 liner, and planning a 3 foot wide and 26 or so foot long bog that wraps around the pond on 2 sides, I can only have a 12x12 pond. a 30x35 or 30x40 liner might be better but at .40 or .45 mil, an epdm liner is close to 300 pounds. I'm not that strong.
Questions:
I want iris, forget-me-nots, hostas, and a few other plants in the bog. Is 3 feet width going to be enough? should I go for 4 feet? I'm planning a 3 foot depth for the bog so that the roots don't go all the way to the bottom.
I know @combatwombat went with an HDRPE liner and said in one of his early videos he expected the stiffness to be a real pain for installation. How bad a pain was it, CW? Any tips if I go with that instead? and where did you find the best deal for yours?
New frustration:
Using a 30x30 liner, and planning a 3 foot wide and 26 or so foot long bog that wraps around the pond on 2 sides, I can only have a 12x12 pond. a 30x35 or 30x40 liner might be better but at .40 or .45 mil, an epdm liner is close to 300 pounds. I'm not that strong.
Questions:
I want iris, forget-me-nots, hostas, and a few other plants in the bog. Is 3 feet width going to be enough? should I go for 4 feet? I'm planning a 3 foot depth for the bog so that the roots don't go all the way to the bottom.
I know @combatwombat went with an HDRPE liner and said in one of his early videos he expected the stiffness to be a real pain for installation. How bad a pain was it, CW? Any tips if I go with that instead? and where did you find the best deal for yours?
Generally people size their bog to the size of their pond and how many/type of fish they plan to have. So the rule of thumb is the bog should be about 30% of the surface area of the pond. You can go less if you think you will have fewer fish. These are just guidelines (bog police are not going to arrest you if your bog is 27% of the pond, lol).
Liner is definitely heavy but not sure you should make your decision on the size of the pond based on the weight. You can figure out how to get the liner to the backyard. I have a small kubota tractor and it took care of 25x35 liner (taking two rolls of liner and the underlayment off the truck with the tractor was a bit nerve wracking). A lot of people here do not have tractors but were able to get their liner out, whether they rented equipment or a neighbor has equipment (I'm always excited to use the tractor, I will go plow my neighbor's driveway after a snowstorm even if they dont ask, lol), or they just have a few people to help with the liner.
You are getting ahead of yourself with the plants, just like the other thread you posted to. The plants you put in will naturally grow into the space and be beautiful. I know you like to garden, me too and this water gardening is very new to me. I am not afraid to try plants in different areas, no big deal if they dont take to the spot, just try something else. People here can give you tips on plants but as you know it is very site specific, depends on the amount of sun, how hard your winter is, etc. Dont worry about the roots, extremely few plants (especially the ones you listed) will grow roots three feet deep. As for width, you can always thin out plants if they start crowding out the area you have.
Liner is definitely heavy but not sure you should make your decision on the size of the pond based on the weight. You can figure out how to get the liner to the backyard. I have a small kubota tractor and it took care of 25x35 liner (taking two rolls of liner and the underlayment off the truck with the tractor was a bit nerve wracking). A lot of people here do not have tractors but were able to get their liner out, whether they rented equipment or a neighbor has equipment (I'm always excited to use the tractor, I will go plow my neighbor's driveway after a snowstorm even if they dont ask, lol), or they just have a few people to help with the liner.
You are getting ahead of yourself with the plants, just like the other thread you posted to. The plants you put in will naturally grow into the space and be beautiful. I know you like to garden, me too and this water gardening is very new to me. I am not afraid to try plants in different areas, no big deal if they dont take to the spot, just try something else. People here can give you tips on plants but as you know it is very site specific, depends on the amount of sun, how hard your winter is, etc. Dont worry about the roots, extremely few plants (especially the ones you listed) will grow roots three feet deep. As for width, you can always thin out plants if they start crowding out the area you have.
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2020
- Messages
- 3,294
- Reaction score
- 3,575
- Location
- Pacific NW
- Hardiness Zone
- 8b
- Country
I think my primary liner was 40x70. I laid it out by myself without too much trouble. I want to say it was about 175 lbs but not too hard to maneuver once its out in a sheet. Manhandling a liner that size was more challenging than the weight itself.
Tips? Remember that RPE liners are a static material. There is no stretch to them at all like EPDM. This makes it hard to form it to tight curves and edges. Requires a lot of liner origami. And folds can eat up liner real estate quickly, so order a bigger liner than you think you need.
I bought mine from American Tilapia, but I wouldn't order from them again. I'd go with BTL.