George Zimmerman Trial

[capewind]

I agree with Charles. We already have enough unenforced and selectively enforced laws. Adding more just hurts the common man rather then the criminal. Or it makes a criminal out of the common man.

I supposely live in a low crime area ... or at least that is what most want folks to believe. Our papers are so liberal, and do not report much of the more extreme crimes. The sole reason is to not hurt the tourism industry. That said, this is not Chicago either. I am not exagerating when I say I can have an illegal gun from the street within an hours time. I am sure many other "law abiding" citizens can say the same. It has gotten to the point where you just dont know anymore who is packing or not, legal or otherwise.

Last year, my older daughter found a gun under the seat in her car. She was so freaked out by it, she drove right to the police station (closer to where she was than home). THANK GOD she was smart enough to not just walk into the station with it, but went in, told an officer, and he came out and got it. We have some thoughts of who it may have belonged to, but no one admitted to it. I would have preferred that had been handled a bit differently LOL.

 

[capewind]

I have no problem with law abiding people having guns for hunting, protection whatever but some control, back ground checks etc. also would be a good idea that's all. I would assume buying a gun at a Texas gun show is fairly easy for the good, the bad and the undocumented cross border shoppers.

Background checks ARE required, but the LEGAL owners are NOT the problem (maybe a few accidents). The issue is the ILLEGAL guns. There are also varying levels of an FID card... you even need one for mace/pepper spray too.

I know pecan brought up the issue with domestic violence being a disqualification, but I also believe a drug conviction and a history with mental illness are also disqualifications.

 

[crsublette]

The important thing to note is our founding fathers did not write the 2nd amendement, Right to Keep and Bear Arms so we could hunt or protect ourselves. They wrote it to ensure an armed society would prevent a future tyranical government.

They had just dealt with a tyranical government and fought for their freedom. They knew an armed society would keep the federal government in check.

This is why we have the Right to Bear Arms and this is why we have the right to be armed as well as any military.

This is not about hunting or personal protection.

Funny how it is the tyranical governments who try to take away our firearms... Self preservation i guess.

Although I agree mostly with you, our Founding Father's wrote those articles actually to protect ourself from a tyranical government. I would think though it is a stretch to suggest the Founding Father's wrote those articles for the self preservation of the crazies and criminals as well.

 

[CdnJCR]

So you really think if the US military was supporting the tyrannical government your guns provide you any protection, because to be armed as well as any military you need to step up your arsenal that should make for a safe America.

The important thing to note is our founding fathers did not write the 2nd amendement, Right to Keep and Bear Arms so we could hunt or protect ourselves. They wrote it to ensure an armed society would prevent a future tyranical government.

They had just dealt with a tyranical government and fought for their freedom. They knew an armed society would keep the federal government in check.

This is why we have the Right to Bear Arms and this is why we have the right to be armed as well as any military.

This is not about hunting or personal protection.

Funny how it is the tyranical governments who try to take away our firearms... Self preservation i guess.

 

[crsublette]

So you really think if the US military was supporting the tyrannical government your guns provide you any protection, because to be armed as well as any military you need to step up your arsenal that should make for a safe America.

Yeah, that is where I disagree with all of the gun advocates. The idea of it is fine for citizens to be able to own tanks, bazookas, rocket launchers, etc, sounds a bit esoteric. If events were to ever come to be that bad, then I gaurantee the National Gaurd and aspects of the military would change sides against the tyrannical government eventhough at the time their boss is the government.

 

[crsublette]

The problem with the idea of creating new gun laws and gun restrictions is that enforcement is always trailing behind or nonexistant. It is stage one thinking to believing the creation of gun laws and gun restrictions is all we need and somehow the authority is instantly created to grow enforcement to apply those gun laws and gun restrictions.

The FBI NICS program is available and is required for vendors at gun shows to utilize when selling guns, but there are too many shady vendors that are easily able to shrug their shoulders and ignore it due to the lack of authority present to enforce it.


It is like the speeding laws. If you know your town only had one cop, zero speeding cameras, and you know abosutely he was 60 miles away from you, then would you drive 80mph or as fast as ya can everywhere ya go? I know I would as long as I know to do it safely.

 

[pecan]

Charles, I was about to say the same thing. Coming from a military family with a Marine husband, brother in law, son in law and father in law I can confidently say there would be a percentage who will uphold the oath they took to protect and defend the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic.

The Utah state sherriffs association wrote a letter to the federal government about 6 months ago stating that if the federal government attempts to step foot in Utah for the purpose of enforcing unconstitutional laws, they would be arrested and tried.

This brings me comfort that there are still a portion of local law enforcement officers who would also uphold the oath they took.

 

[dieselplower]

Its pretty silly to believe that the military would turn on the US. Not gonna happen.

 

[HTH]

Its pretty silly to believe that the military would turn on the US. Not gonna happen.

More like the military gets ordered to turn on 'the US'

It can happen with a top heavy gov.

 

[crsublette]

Don't know why you would think it'd be silly to believe that the military would turn on the US. Officers always have the choice to disobey their superiors, and this has been demonstrated, when they know the decision is quite obviously not correct. This is why we have mutinies and court martials.

This is also why it is so important that the commander in chief is a civilian. This is also why it is so important to not allow politics to influence our military. There are too many military officers and generals that get fired due to political differences and there is very little outrage from the media nor the mob.

 

[dieselplower]

Come on guys... I believe some of the higher ups might order it one day, but those orders won't be followed.

 

[pecan]

The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." --Thomas Jefferson

 

[waynefrcan]

And you guys must be sick of us outsiders criticizing your guns rights. IT's really a different world that you live in and your association with guns over a 400 yr history. I can't as many around the world wrap my head around the idea that a civilian can have a concealed firearm to go anywhere with. I almost had a fight with a neighbor one time because I called his wife a hag. Maybe I be dead if he was packing.

With us looking in it's like this. You love guns but you have a gun and crime problem with them.

You lead the world per population in these areas with 300,000,000 guns with a population of 300,000,000.
25,000 gun deaths per year.
Highest crime rates with guns.
Highest incarceration rates.


But Only you know whats best for your country. Our countries laws are too strict, but I do agree with some of it.

 

[crsublette]

And you guys must be sick of us outsiders criticizing your guns rights. IT's really a different world that you live in and your association with guns over a 400 yr history. I can't as many around the world wrap my head around the idea that a civilian can have a concealed firearm to go anywhere with. I almost had a fight with a neighbor one time because I called his wife a hag. Maybe I be dead if he was packing.



With us looking in it's like this. You love guns but you have a gun and crime problem with them.



You lead the world per population in these areas with 300,000,000 guns with a population of 300,000,000.

25,000 gun deaths per year.

Highest crime rates with guns.

Highest incarceration rates.



But Only you know whats best for your country. Our countries laws are too strict, but I do agree with some of it.

We have a gun and crime problem even without the guns, in gun free zones.

Again Wayne, all gun deaths are not the same. All incarcerations reasons are not the same.


Lets do this now, increasing font size so we love screaming at each other in forums.

Wayne, you admit that you have a gun. (post#27, 7 rifles, 5 handguns) Why have you not shot a neighbor after a heated exchange??

 

[waynefrcan]

Now that female juror didn't seem all too bright either. She confused the testimony from the medical Dr and the war vet witness, and stumbled to find the right words at times. Maybe just nervous...