I do wonder if that's the secret. We have some big rocks on top of that liner!
Another newbie seeking construction advice
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I do wonder if that's the secret. We have some big rocks on top of that liner!
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Over 24 hours since it stopped raining and it's still practically full. Is that normal?
Sure. What about that would be "abnormal" to you?
There are natural retention ponds in my neighborhood that stay full 85% of the time. They don't fully empty unless we have extended periods of drought.
There are natural retention ponds in my neighborhood that stay full 85% of the time. They don't fully empty unless we have extended periods of drought.
You have a very high clay content in your soils, it absorbs water to a certain extent and thats it . it then holds water . But your soils are not good enough for an earthen pond as the water clearly dropped a couple inches. So it has some draining properties which you need for a pond. but i would still look at a underliner drain better to have it and not need it then need it and never had it
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@Lisak1 I guess I just figured it would permeate underground quicker, but this is all new to me, and I see now that holding the water is not abnormal.
@GBBUDD The whole drain underneath the liner idea is a stretch for me since I'm trying to keep my design as simple as possible. If I had a drain down there, I'd need another pump and a route for it to get out. I could see how that would be a value for a larger pond like yours, but for my little hole in the ground I'm hoping to get by without it.
@GBBUDD The whole drain underneath the liner idea is a stretch for me since I'm trying to keep my design as simple as possible. If I had a drain down there, I'd need another pump and a route for it to get out. I could see how that would be a value for a larger pond like yours, but for my little hole in the ground I'm hoping to get by without it.
Your misunderstand how they work all it is is a path of least resistance. Its simply an open channel for water to enter and as pressure might build under the liner it rises up the Pipe no pump nothing special . This way it has somewhere to go instead of lifting the liner. a channel of stone at the bottom lower then the pond bottom like a sump pump to where the pipe sits at one end and if water gets in there and pressure builds it simply rises up the pipe. Thats about the only thing that is not in my set up as i had soils that drained very well .
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That's interesting. I'll definitely look into it then.
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I know this is a tricky question to answer, given so many variables, but can anyone help me to get a ballpark figure in my head on what it would cost me retail to buy rock for my smallish size pond, with some more for the berm/bog and then a few extras to spread around a little? Size-wise, I'm hoping for small to medium small so that I can manually move by myself or with help from no more than one other person.
The reason I ask is that an acquaintance has told me he has all the moss rock I could ever want on his land and to come make him an offer on the quantity that I need. Given that I'd have to arrange and pay for loading, transport, and unloading, I'd only do this if the price is worthwhile. My problem is that I have no perception of how much it would cost me otherwise from a retailer, and I don't want to over-offer. Again, I realize this is a pretty impossible question, but if you've purchased rock before and can give me even a very rough estimate, that could be really helpful.
The reason I ask is that an acquaintance has told me he has all the moss rock I could ever want on his land and to come make him an offer on the quantity that I need. Given that I'd have to arrange and pay for loading, transport, and unloading, I'd only do this if the price is worthwhile. My problem is that I have no perception of how much it would cost me otherwise from a retailer, and I don't want to over-offer. Again, I realize this is a pretty impossible question, but if you've purchased rock before and can give me even a very rough estimate, that could be really helpful.
Not impossible at all! Many rock yards will tell you their per ton or per lb price over the phone. Then just use a pond calculator to figure out how much rock you need. Here's one example, but there are lots of these on the internet:
support.aquascapeinc.com
What you're looking for is one and two man boulders. When you buy these by the pallet, they are generally sized so most of the pallet is of similar sizes. Per pallet pricing is sometimes cheaper - we found that by the pallet you pay by the ton. If you hand pick rocks, you pay by the pound.
If you are doing all the gathering, ,lifting, moving and unloading, plus providing the transportation, I would pay your friend about 20 - 25% of the going rate. Obviously much of the cost of these stone and rock products comes from actually getting them TO the rock yard. Nature did the hard part! I'd figure the rock yards are at LEAST doubling the price they paid to the wholesaler. This is of course just wild speculation on my part, based on what I know about retail pricing for things like furniture and clothing. We found that, unless you buy enough rock, the cost of delivery can exceed the cost of the rock, depending on where you live.
If you're planning to rock the interior of the pond, I'd negotiate a lower price with your friend. You could easily use granite boulders for the inside of the pond, which for us were about 1/3 the cost of the moss rock. I wish I could remember actual prices we paid, but that would vary so much by location that I don't know if it would be all that helpful. For example, here they bring all he moss rock from Semco, which I think is in Missouri, but the granite they get from northern Wisconsin, so the transportation costs play a big factor in the price.
Hope that helps!
How much rock should I use in my pond?
Rock Calculation for the POND Length x Width ÷ 40 = Tons of boulders ***Using a 1:2:1 ratio*** For every (1 TON) of 6”-12” rock, Get (2 TON) of 12”-18” and (1 TON) of 18”-24” Quantity of Boulders u...
What you're looking for is one and two man boulders. When you buy these by the pallet, they are generally sized so most of the pallet is of similar sizes. Per pallet pricing is sometimes cheaper - we found that by the pallet you pay by the ton. If you hand pick rocks, you pay by the pound.
If you are doing all the gathering, ,lifting, moving and unloading, plus providing the transportation, I would pay your friend about 20 - 25% of the going rate. Obviously much of the cost of these stone and rock products comes from actually getting them TO the rock yard. Nature did the hard part! I'd figure the rock yards are at LEAST doubling the price they paid to the wholesaler. This is of course just wild speculation on my part, based on what I know about retail pricing for things like furniture and clothing. We found that, unless you buy enough rock, the cost of delivery can exceed the cost of the rock, depending on where you live.
If you're planning to rock the interior of the pond, I'd negotiate a lower price with your friend. You could easily use granite boulders for the inside of the pond, which for us were about 1/3 the cost of the moss rock. I wish I could remember actual prices we paid, but that would vary so much by location that I don't know if it would be all that helpful. For example, here they bring all he moss rock from Semco, which I think is in Missouri, but the granite they get from northern Wisconsin, so the transportation costs play a big factor in the price.
Hope that helps!
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Yes, it does, very much so. Thanks again. 20-25% of retail is what I was thinking too, considering the impression I got was that he doesn't care at all about the rock being removed and just sees the opportunity to make a little money from it. Now I can estimate the cost of purchasing from the rock yard.Not impossible at all! Many rock yards will tell you their per ton or per lb price over the phone. Then just use a pond calculator to figure out how much rock you need. Here's one example, but there are lots of these on the internet:
How much rock should I use in my pond?
Rock Calculation for the POND Length x Width ÷ 40 = Tons of boulders ***Using a 1:2:1 ratio*** For every (1 TON) of 6”-12” rock, Get (2 TON) of 12”-18” and (1 TON) of 18”-24” Quantity of Boulders u...
What you're looking for is one and two man boulders. When you buy these by the pallet, they are generally sized so most of the pallet is of similar sizes. Per pallet pricing is sometimes cheaper - we found that by the pallet you pay by the ton. If you hand pick rocks, you pay by the pound.
If you are doing all the gathering, ,lifting, moving and unloading, plus providing the transportation, I would pay your friend about 20 - 25% of the going rate. Obviously much of the cost of these stone and rock products comes from actually getting them TO the rock yard. Nature did the hard part! I'd figure the rock yards are at LEAST doubling the price they paid to the wholesaler. This is of course just wild speculation on my part, based on what I know about retail pricing for things like furniture and clothing. We found that, unless you buy enough rock, the cost of delivery can exceed the cost of the rock, depending on where you live.
If you're planning to rock the interior of the pond, I'd negotiate a lower price with your friend. You could easily use granite boulders for the inside of the pond, which for us were about 1/3 the cost of the moss rock. I wish I could remember actual prices we paid, but that would vary so much by location that I don't know if it would be all that helpful. For example, here they bring all he moss rock from Semco, which I think is in Missouri, but the granite they get from northern Wisconsin, so the transportation costs play a big factor in the price.
Hope that helps!
naaa 6 man plus for me
don't forget you need probably equipment at the site where the rock is to load the truck . or a roll off dumpster company could help just never load it fully talk to the company and ask what t can handle this generally gives more time to load and they will bring it to your home but they may refuse to drive onto your driveway without a waiver. Its to loading and trucking that costs . if it's a friend think about the actual buck if your getting a lot an extra 500 bucks may be more then enough even though your grabbing $2000 worth.
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Using lisak1's link above my rough estimate is 12 tons. The local rock yard charges $140/ton for moss rock, and with a small delivery charge the total comes to just shy of $1900. That's actually less than I expected.
So now I have something to work with when I go see the private property rock today. He has now offered to load and move it for me, which makes for an easier comparison. Only thing that I'm still stumped on is this:. The formula says I need 12 tons, which I can have the rock yard weigh for me. At the private property, I have no idea how to determine what 12 tons is.
So now I have something to work with when I go see the private property rock today. He has now offered to load and move it for me, which makes for an easier comparison. Only thing that I'm still stumped on is this:. The formula says I need 12 tons, which I can have the rock yard weigh for me. At the private property, I have no idea how to determine what 12 tons is.
12 tons is quite a lot of stone actually, if they aren't 700 pound boulders. If you can go see some pallets at a rock yard, you'd get a better visual of what a ton of boulders looks like. We found most of the pallets weighed in around 2500-2800 lbs. Here's two of them:
Those are huge boulders, but you can get an idea of what a 4x4x4 pallet can hold.
$160 a ton for moss rock is a great price... I don't know if I would go through all the work you're talking about doing to save a few hundred bucks. But that's an individual choice. Honestly, if your friend needs to get rid of them he may be willing to take enough to cover his time and equipment usage.
Those are huge boulders, but you can get an idea of what a 4x4x4 pallet can hold.
$160 a ton for moss rock is a great price... I don't know if I would go through all the work you're talking about doing to save a few hundred bucks. But that's an individual choice. Honestly, if your friend needs to get rid of them he may be willing to take enough to cover his time and equipment usage.