Another newbie seeking construction advice

[GBBUDD]

DO YOU PLAN on using 2 to 3 inch rock to start until you have the pipe buried ?

 

[stavo]

The other thing i recommend that takes minimal effort and because it is hard to get underlayment and liner to make a perfect 90 degree corner . leaving a potential air pocket under the liner where it is then a weak spot is to add some mortar in the bottom corners , and if doing proac tive the vertical corners as well. it doesn't have to be perfect or even uniformly even just take a handful of mortar and pack it so the corner is round it doesn't require hardly any at all.
when you go to place the liner and underlayment in there try to leave a little slack that way if there is a void you don't stretch the liner but have some to fill in the area. its just extra insurance

DO YOU PLAN on using 2 to 3 inch rock to start until you have the pipe buried ?

Thanks for the mortar suggestion - I'll do that. Haven't given thought yet to the size rock. Is that what you recommend, and then use pea gravel or something above it?

 

[GBBUDD]

Larger rock will allow water to migrate across the bottom better and not block up limiting some areas.1

 

[stavo]

I'm hoping to get some advice with constructing the negative edge going from the pond to the cistern (or please point me to the right direction if there's a particularly good thread on the subject).

The photos below show what I'm dealing with and I'm kind of stuck on next steps. In general, I'm almost ready to lay out the underlayment and liner, and I plan to run it continuously from the pond to the cistern. But as you can see, I need to build up the soil underneath to support the flat rock that will top the negative edge. Any tips on how to do that would be greatly appreciated. Also, I'm assuming the liner goes under the flat rock. I'm planning on having it slightly sloped up to discourage fish from going over - how wide should the rock be? Any suggestion on type of rock that works particularly well? Are there any other important considerations that I may be missing?

This is looking at the edge from the side profile. Pond to the left, cistern to the right. The board sitting on there is just to aid in perception as I wasn't sure how the dirt would show in the picture.

The edge from the cistern towards the pond. Water will come over into the cistern which will have aquablocks and rock.

From inside the pond toward the cistern...

 

[GBBUDD]

Well how about that depression can be used to your benefit ? The cistern is going to collect and a build up sludge no matter what you do. This will take up space in the cistern. i'd think about using that area as a filter trap where the water can drop into that area where fabric is lining the space and you can pull it out to clean. I do question why the thin wall in the cistern and it would appear your cistern will be 300 gallons? i also am curious why you have a pump vault ? with the cement casket you could have the submersable pump just sitting in there

 

[stavo]

I guess I just assumed the vault was a necessity, and the thin wall was put in to protect the liner from the roots of the marina arbutis tree that's right there.

Interesting idea with the filter trap.

 

[stavo]

My project has continued to progress, but it took a step back before moving forward. This was due to poor communication from me. I've had the help of a couple guys moving dirt. Unfortunately I was away one day and they proceeded to fill in around the raised bog structure - which needed to be done - but they used the soil from the raised area on the side of the pond that I had built up to help make the bog more natural looking. So this resulted in exactly what I didn't want - the bog very much resembling a volcano. So we had to source some more dirt and ended up rebuilding the berm pond-side. Looks a lot better now. Perhaps not perfect, but I'm good with it. Will still add small boulders and more dirt later to build it up further.

Also, the interior of the bond has taken final shape, and I've started laying out some stone. I have the shelf leading to the cistern positioned, and I've started working on the waterfall from the bog down to the pond. I'm kind of stuck now, trying to figure out how to best position rock on each step down. Would anyone know of a thread in this forum that could educate me on this?

Flagstone shelf leading to cistern, inclined slightly from left to right.

Pond takes final shape.

Starting to lay out waterfall.

Trying to figure out how to lay out the rocks forming the waterfall.

 

[Mmathis]

Wow, that’s impressive, and a lot of work. I went back and looked from the beginning.

 

[Lisak1]

Wow... this feels like a totally different pond than when you started. You took the "build a bog" advice to heart!

 

[stavo]

Wow... this feels like a totally different pond than when you started. You took the "build a bog" advice to heart!

Yes I did. Valuable advice because I wouldn't have considered it otherwise.

 

[GBBUDD]

My first concern is how well is that mound you built up compacted even with the best attempts to do so can be hard to get it so it will not settle further. i see you infilled the blocks but is there re bar in the slab and in the walls ?

I would advice using a non woven fabric and then a liner . Without re reading the entire blog i would also recommend looking at those concrete edges they are sharp enough to cut a liner. if you look at the last picture the last block right up to the weir it looks like a saw blade "jagged ." it's very easy to ease those edges with a grinder and a mason wheel or even just a brick or rock rubbed on the edge those a bit more work.

as far as the waterfall and the stream go in nature 90% of your falls create a small pond from the water falling down and eroding the soils or even the rock over millions of years. this is where soooooo many go wrong they take a rock and put it under the drop of the water and it splashes everywhere and just doesn't look quite right. Make little ponds for the water to fall into but in doing so you also want to make a catchers mit the falls being the palm and the webs being out to the sides and coming out in front a little, again to catch the splash. Human nature thinks if i have the falls come to an edge it should be the floor or rock of the upper area that creates the falls. while this works it is harder much harder to look natural it is usually the large rock on the vertical from the drop below that comes up to the upper level that the water then cascades over. The little pool is then usually filled with larger gravel and brought up to the that vertical rock from below as it is a couple inches higher creating that pool. tHIS IS ALSO WHERE BIB LINERS WATERFALL FOAM AND CAULKING COME INTO PLAY IT'S NOT EASY IT RTAKES SOME TIME BUT OH WORTH IT

 

[stavo]

My first concern is how well is that mound you built up compacted even with the best attempts to do so can be hard to get it so it will not settle further. i see you infilled the blocks but is there re bar in the slab and in the walls ?

I would advice using a non woven fabric and then a liner . Without re reading the entire blog i would also recommend looking at those concrete edges they are sharp enough to cut a liner. if you look at the last picture the last block right up to the weir it looks like a saw blade "jagged ." it's very easy to ease those edges with a grinder and a mason wheel or even just a brick or rock rubbed on the edge those a bit more work.

as far as the waterfall and the stream go in nature 90% of your falls create a small pond from the water falling down and eroding the soils or even the rock over millions of years. this is where soooooo many go wrong they take a rock and put it under the drop of the water and it splashes everywhere and just doesn't look quite right. Make little ponds for the water to fall into but in doing so you also want to make a catchers mit the falls being the palm and the webs being out to the sides and coming out in front a little, again to catch the splash. Human nature thinks if i have the falls come to an edge it should be the floor or rock of the upper area that creates the falls. while this works it is harder much harder to look natural it is usually the large rock on the vertical from the drop below that comes up to the upper level that the water then cascades over. The little pool is then usually filled with larger gravel and brought up to the that vertical rock from below as it is a couple inches higher creating that pool. tHIS IS ALSO WHERE BIB LINERS WATERFALL FOAM AND CAULKING COME INTO PLAY IT'S NOT EASY IT RTAKES SOME TIME BUT OH WORTH IT

The mound is well-packed in some places, and not so well in others. I will continue to wet it down and tamp it, but the most important areas are pretty well packed in already. Yes, we used significant rebar in the blocks and slab.

I also rounded all the edges of blocks following your earlier advice. If you think it needs more based on the pictures, I give it another go.

Thanks for your thoughts on the waterfall. I'm not rushing into finishing it as I hope to get it right the first time. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming I need to dig-in and position each rock for the waterfall before I lay the underlayment and liner?

 

[GBBUDD]

You want to make a flat area for the Boulder to sit on yes and that is generally what creates your pool at the bottom of the falls. Those rocks then stick up higher than the upper area which helps create that pooling or stream area.

The last picture you have posted here thar area of the block wall looks I bit more jagged than I would like in my pond. Will it cut the fabric and liner for sure? I can't say. Is it worth 20 minutes to ease all the edges to insure in 20 years you don't get a 100 year flood everything shifts and the liner sags and gets cut. It sure is to me . We are building with tons of stone onto of a thin layer of rubber. It doesn't take much to cut it . And once it starts it tears even easier.

 

[tanyaclick]

I read your bog post... thanks for taking the time to add that to this site. It's helpful and if you don't mind, I'll probably pepper you with some questions once I get started on mine.

For me, I just need to figure out how to fit it all in now. The irony is that I had the black fence that is visible in my photos put in last year, and I could've easily placed it further out which would've given more space, but the pond idea came after, so now I'm working in a defined space while everything on the other side of the fence is wasted space (unless I want to accept the expense of moving a brand new fence). Having said that, I do plan to enlarge the berm and add a wetland filter on top. Part B of that problem is that the one 8-ft fence panel behind and to the immediate left of my berm was intentionally bolted in for ease of removal for access. All the rest of the panels are welded. So when I get my rock delivery, they'll be dropped behind that panel and I was going to bring them in from there. Otherwise, I have a fairly long route to carry them through the nearest gate. So if I enlarge the berm, it will block access to that fence panel. Not sure how to work around that yet - maybe I need to buy and move rocks in before I build the berm, but at the same time, dirt is being excavated now and it would be best to add it to the berm pile as it comes out.

To answer your question, making the pond 3 feet doesn't involve anything more than more digging and moving dirt. But why? Can't smaller non-koi fish do fine in 2 - 2 1/2 ft? Please let me know, if it's important, I will go deeper.

Concerning the liner, thanks for the advice. I'm not going to spare expense on that. Once this pond is finished, I don't want something major like liner failure to occur.

How'd it turn out? I'm new to the hobby about to build and would love to learn what worked for you/didn't. I'm doing koi.

 

[stavo]

How'd it turn out? I'm new to the hobby about to build and would love to learn what worked for you/didn't. I'm doing koi.

Hi there. I wish I could answer that, but I'm still not finished. I keep oscillating between this and a project property that we're fixing up as a short term rental. I know the rains are coming and really should try to get the liner down before that, but unfortunately financial considerations are making the other project the priority. Hope to have pictures of more progress at some point, but in the meantime, good luck on your build. Fortunately there are plenty of resources for you on this forum.