Another newbie seeking construction advice

[stavo]

Made a little more progress today...

Got the plumbing in. This is from the water pump in the reservoir to the bog. Shut off valve included. Wondering if this is sufficient or should I also add a valve that automatically prevents backflow in the event that the pump shut off? Now that I actually wrote that out I think I answered my own question. If there was a power outage, the bog would empty back into my cistern and flood it. I guess I better add that.

@Laaf Per your suggestion I added more rebar to the top of the bog wall to increase the height for a greater differential from the weir.

Next step is to add the piping to the bottom of the bog. Here is my planned layout, with the "X's" being vertical clean outs to flush it when necessary. There will also be a drain line at the bottom.

 

[stavo]

we or I have no idea what your talking about.......

i would suggest a quick skim coat of mortar in your corners rounding them so that your liner inside doesn't stretch into the hard 90 degree corners and at the floor and at the top youll want to ease the edges of the blocks/ round them so they don't cut the liner as it goes over the edge

welcome back

Thanks for this reminder. As I'm expanding the width, I'm trying to slant the walls down to avoid 90 degree corners, but in any areas where that can't be helped I'll definitely use your suggestion. I'll also work on the block edges. Will the under lament help with that or is that not sufficient?

 

[GBBUDD]

If there was a power outage, the bog would empty back into my cistern and flood it. I guess I better add that.

If both water levels are the same its not necessary but if the reservoir has a lower containment height then yes water will equalize. and to be honest swing check valves are not the best i'd have 2 to try and prevent back flow . best option is to come up over the edge of the bog and use a pin hole in the pipe with in the bog or a vacuum breaker they work similar to a check valve but in reverse they are held shut but the pump and water. but when the power goes out the swing opens letting air in a vacuum is broken

 

[Laaf]

My bog piping is more like a 3 tine pitchfork. If you run 3 long bog pipes instead of 2 with one curving at the end, you will have less of a dead zone in the middle of the pipes where water is just sitting and not being pushed up. You show 6 inches pipe to wall, how many inches between your pipes?

The way you have it will likely work fine too.

But I would position the 2 pipes more equidistant to each other and the middle and walls.

I think you will be very glad you raised the bog walls and you can come back and tell us how many inches your water level rose as the plants grow.

 

[GBBUDD]

I also raised my bog walls down the road but i did not have enough liner i had to redue the entire bog . i did not make that mistake the second time i could raise the entire bog another 3 or 4 feet if i wanted to and not have to redue the rock and liner.

My main bog is not pipes it's a matrix . but to answer your question the closer they are together the more the pipes are similar to a matrix

 

[stavo]

My bog piping is more like a 3 tine pitchfork. If you run 3 long bog pipes instead of 2 with one curving at the end, you will have less of a dead zone in the middle of the pipes where water is just sitting and not being pushed up. You show 6 inches pipe to wall, how many inches between your pipes?

The way you have it will likely work fine too.

But I would position the 2 pipes more equidistant to each other and the middle and walls.

I think you will be very glad you raised the bog walls and you can come back and tell us how many inches your water level rose as the plants grow.

This makes total sense. My bog width is 42", so I will space them each 14" on center from the side walls. I'd rather stay with two rather than three, because each will have it's own cleanout at the bog's surface and don't want to clutter that space too much (I'm hoping to be able to fully flush each "tyne" by uncapping them individually while pump is running, so I don't want any cross lines in the manifold). Do you feel 14" separation will provide sufficient coverage or is that too far apart?

 

[stavo]

If both water levels are the same its not necessary but if the reservoir has a lower containment height then yes water will equalize. and to be honest swing check valves are not the best i'd have 2 to try and prevent back flow . best option is to come up over the edge of the bog and use a pin hole in the pipe with in the bog or a vacuum breaker they work similar to a check valve but in reverse they are held shut but the pump and water. but when the power goes out the swing opens letting air in a vacuum is broken

I get what you're saying but I've already committed to the cleaner look of having the entry at the bottom.

Just curious what the downside is of swing check valves? Is it that they get grit stuck so they don't fully close? I'm going to only rely on that valve for unexpected power outages... for everything else I'll be able to manually shut the line with the ball valve.

 

[Laaf]

I get what you're saying but I've already committed to the cleaner look of having the entry at the bottom.

Just curious what the downside is of swing check valves? Is it that they get grit stuck so they don't fully close? I'm going to only rely on that valve for unexpected power outages... for everything else I'll be able to manually shut the line with the ball valve.

I have one of those valves on mine.

As far as the cleanouts, you can spray paint them brown or green and they will disappear. Or just wait less than a year for the plants to obscure them.

Something tells me 3 or 4 legs to your bog piping is better than 2 so water is coming out more evenly across the bottom with less force. But I do think you can make 2 work.

Maybe someone will have a more scientific answer of whether it would make a difference to have 2 or 3 pipes for discharge.

 

[GBBUDD]

I get what you're saying but I've already committed to the cleaner look of having the entry at the bottom.

Just curious what the downside is of swing check valves? Is it that they get grit stuck so they don't fully close? I'm going to only rely on that valve for unexpected power outages... for everything else I'll be able to manually shut the line with the ball valve.

Yes they honestly don't work very well. Leak at best if they are at the bottom of a vertical pipe 20 feet high they can have plenty of pressure to close them properly but horizontaly not so much imo

 

[GBBUDD]

This makes total sense. My bog width is 42", so I will space them each 14" on center from the side walls. I'd rather stay with two rather than three, because each will have it's own cleanout at the bog's surface and don't want to clutter that space too much (I'm hoping to be able to fully flush each "tyne" by uncapping them individually while pump is running, so I don't want any cross lines in the manifold). Do you feel 14" separation will provide sufficient coverage or is that too far apart?

Yeah that's a legit space that leaves 7 inches between each pipe pushing outward. 🫸

 

[GBBUDD]

I have one of those valves on mine.

As far as the cleanouts, you can spray paint them brown or green and they will disappear. Or just wait less than a year for the plants to obscure them.

Something tells me 3 or 4 legs to your bog piping is better than 2 so water is coming out more evenly across the bottom with less force. But I do think you can make 2 work.

Maybe someone will have a more scientific answer of whether it would make a difference to have 2 or 3 pipes for discharge.

If the bog is 42 wide and the pipes are 14 inches apart that mean the water from each will only have to spread out 7 inches to where it will meet up with the waterflow from the neighboring pipe. Sounds good to me

 

[Laaf]

I trust Gbudd's answer more than mine since he built the aquascape DIY pond of the year...................so he clearly knows what he is talking about on this.

 

[GBBUDD]

I trust Gbudd's answer more than mine since he built the aquascape DIY pond of the year...................so he clearly knows what he is talking about on this.

Beginners luck, But thank you. 6 years ago i was here asking the same questions knowing nothing about ponds . maybe im not following but if you have a peastone bog and your pipes are 14 inches apart i would think that would work fine . the more you put in the closer it gets toward a matrix bog

 

[stavo]

I've made a little more progress, mostly plumbing. Also, I rounded the edges of the concrete blocks where the liner will cover as GBBUDD suggested.

I made 1/4" wide slits every four inches along the manifold. These will face downward.

This is the completed manifold with the two vertical cleanouts. Next step is the underlayment and liner, and I plan to add spacers underneath to give a little clearance for the water flow. Also, you can see the drain pipe in the corner.

I'm finalizing the installation of the back-flow valve and the plumbing into the pump. Getting close to rolling out the liner... a step I was beginning to doubt would ever arrive!

 

[GBBUDD]

The other thing i recommend that takes minimal effort and because it is hard to get underlayment and liner to make a perfect 90 degree corner . leaving a potential air pocket under the liner where it is then a weak spot is to add some mortar in the bottom corners , and if doing proac tive the vertical corners as well. it doesn't have to be perfect or even uniformly even just take a handful of mortar and pack it so the corner is round it doesn't require hardly any at all.
when you go to place the liner and underlayment in there try to leave a little slack that way if there is a void you don't stretch the liner but have some to fill in the area. its just extra insurance