An alternative, better, approach to a bog. Anoxic Filtration.

[crsublette]

Very interesting read, and it's nice to see Dr. Shimek referenced here in a pond forum. I've been following him for about 10 years now and even took a couple of online classes from him. I've set up my marine aquarium with a deep sand bed following his teachings.

I think the point Waterbug is making is that the kitty litter granules are far too porous to allow the proper anoxic mechanisms and so he present Dr. Shimek as the proper example. Dr. Shimek talks about using extremely fine, small granular, material. The medium used to create the denitration that Dr. Shimek talks about is not anywhere close to what is being used here. Unfortunately, Novak's response to this was all grief, "you think you know it all ... blah blah blah". Instead, Novak could have talked about the relatiionship of his data with Dr. Shimek so we, "those looking for more", could better understand.

I've read Novak's material many times. Novak even mentions, in his own writing, that water O2 saturation will determine the performance of his anoxic tanks. However, when he gets on these forums, he says that it doesn't matter all. Kind of aggravating.

I've been thinking about writing a "cliff's notes" using exact quotes along with proper references to Novak's material. Novak's material is not well organized at all. I'm afraid he might send out the copyright lawyers after me though.

 

[callingcolleen1]

So what exactly is this filter system made of? I understand it involves plants and kitty litter, but I have never seen any pictures or anything! Anyone got a basic version of how it works?

 

[crsublette]

Heh, I read comments like yours all the time. Not knock on ya. It is just that on so many forums I read people asking "what exactly is the deal?" Goes to show ya how poorly Novak's material is organized.

There are some good pictures in his materials but ya just gotta search for a good while to find the pictures that give a really good understanding. The Syd Mitchel article I hyperlinked at post#1 explains it much better how they are constructed.

It is simply just non-clumping kitty litter that has absolutely zero anti-bacterial additivies nor any fragrances nor any other type of additives. Just your basic Walmart kitty litter ya using for pond plants.

If you're unsure of the kitty litter being non-clumping, then put some in a cup of water ... wait a week ... see if the granules clump together to form a kind of sand or mud, you do not want this!

The two main ingredients is the described kitty litter and Laterite.

Laterite is an aquarium product used as a substrate for aquarium plants.

Ya simply get one of these pond plant baskets, mentioned earlier somehwere in this thread, and fill it with kitty litter then dig a hole in the center of the litter to pour in the laterite. The ratio of laterite to litter is all over the place, but there are a few examples of what to do. I wouldn't over think it though, that is worrying if ya didn't put enough Laterite.

You are essentially building the anoxic chamber to be one huge settlement tank with the diffusor, where water enters the tanks, at the top or on the side of walls. Then, the outlet can simply be a standpipe placed on the opposite side of the tank away from the diffusor.

There are many more little tid bits about the setup explained in Novak's materials, but that is the basic jest of it.

Whenever I renovate my pond, I am going to convert some whiskey barrels into some anoxic filter chambers and will share the pictures.

 

[callingcolleen1]

Humm, interesting. Most of my pond plants are just too large now, they are also very heavy and to large to move easy. The one yellow flag takes up at least a 4 by 5 foot section of the middle pond, and is not planted in anything. The sedges seem to grow best that way, as they are just too large to be controlled in any basket. The fish swim under it in the winter. I was just curious, but I think that my large plants "lick" the pond clean as the last time I did move the yellow flag, a couple years back, the bottom of it was very clean, no dirt no nothing anymore, just a massive root ball. I have divided it many times over the twenty one years that I have had it, I swear that thing eats all the pond sludge too!

Would be nice to see a actual running example, just in case I make the ponds bigger, I am always making them bigger every few years it seems. May make a larger top pond, it's about 5 feet by 10 feet right now, and three feet deep. Has two of the largest koi in there, they seem to be very large these days, maybe close to two feet long and maybe 15 inches round. Not sure how much they weigh, have not moved them for about 18 years now. They would be a challenge to move that is for sure. Been thinking that if and when I move them, I will have to lower the water just to catch them and put them in a sling or pillow case and gently move them to the big middle pond while I redo the top pond. They are very strong and swim very fast, and they can splash lots of water over the pond edge in the summer with their big tails.

 

[connor]

I set this filter up as i found it hard to beleave it could work and how simple it is to set up,will say it took over 10 months for it to fully work my readings have been very good.I use the vortex as a pre filter and there is some brushies in one where the water pass threw is thats it.

 

[sissy]

I keep it cheap and simple and seems to amaze me how much money people will spend on filtering and half the time you look at there water in there ponds it looks the same as any pond out there with a cheap system .I see all these ugly tanks setting in some ones yard and i cringe at what I see .I would not want to look out my windows and see all that garbage .If you can hide it from neighbors view then that is different .The only system that works is what works for you .No pond is the same in size ,fish load or feeding so what works for some will not work for others .Different temps and shade and sun effect the pond too .I think it comes down to some like to tinker with all kinds of ideas ,plants ,water, filter, pump and fish ,simple as that .THATS ME cheap :cheerful:

 

[anoxic101]

Anoxic Filtration Book... Still free on Apple's iBook store
This is to inform everyone on a new way of obtaining the Anoxic Filtration System’s CD-book that Syd Mitchel has so gracelessly added to his web sight.

If you have an Apple iPad, iPhone or iPod you can now download the book for free from the Apple iBook Store on your computer with iTunes. The Anoxic Filtration System CD-Book has been converted with the help of Apple’s iBook Author into a very colorful full version of the original CD-Book. Easier to read and page through without the breaking up of pages. Any page of the book can now be looked up easily and fast for reference when needed.


Anoxic Filtration System by Syd Mitchell, Tony Ruiz & Dr Kevin Novak
https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/ano...04698627?mt=11


or try this link: https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/ano...04698627?mt=11
Attached Thumbnails

 

[MitchM]

Unfortunately the download is not available in Canada.

 

[crsublette]

It has been a while since I have queried professor Novak since KKU dissappeared, but it appears Novak did the same for his Anoxic system that Waddington has done for his ERIC system. They have created them self a website, that is entirely dedicated for them to share their system unopposed and moderated entirely by them self, which is quite fine. Hopefully, this will be a nice safe place for Novak so he can feel comfortable in sharing much more information.

Here is the new home of the Anoxic Filtraiton System.

Also, another thread has been started to further discuss Novak's invention, that thread is Anoxic filters?

 

[JohnHuff]

Here is the new home of the Anoxic Filtraiton System.

I have two things to say about this blog:
1) It's one of the worst organized and designed I've ever seen.
2) It would be much, much more helpful if the dear Dr. did not speak in academic jargon like "some hobbyist will not even give it a second thought until water parameters becomes depredated enough by chemical and biological insults."

That is not to impugn on the said Dr's academic knowledge or veracity of microbacteriological events but the vehicle in which to impart this knowledge should be alternatively considered aka in English please!

 

[crsublette]

Bah, not going to double post. Just check out the latest drama posted by Mr. Novak, as mentioned in the thread Anoxic filters?.

 

[Dave 54]

Charles please refare to Kevin by his propper title he earned his Doctorate and is rightfully entitled to use it .
I'm in regular contact with him on a friendly basis as I am with Syd Mitchell who I never hear you knock, here in the UK the anoxic system is used quite widely we even have a pond here in Pymouth by a former KKU member .
If Syd took the system on board then you can garentee it works as he is one of the fore-most experts on water in the UK and BKKS.
I cannot understand you hostility towards him or his system

Dave

 

[callingcolleen1]

I do however agree with John Huff, and the good Doctor should use simple terms so more people will understand what he is talking about.

 

[Dave 54]

True but there are folk out there in the world that simply cannot speak in simple terms whatever they say, why I no not but they nines out of ten are academic in their thinking .
We even see it with some folks here who I'm not knocking because I understand much of what they are on about but it leaves others completely lost ,
If you recall early on I did a thread called keep it simple when I first came over to this site for the very reason John and yourself picked up on because newbies in my veiw would be scared away.
I for one always remember to practice this, doing it this way brings understanding to our hobby for many people .
I think the good Doctor simply thinks in an academic way and cannot simpify what he is teaching other's.
Hell I though our Library was big until he posted a photo on KKU of a book unit crammed full to the brim books on Aquatic science, marine biology etc etc but if you get behind that he is a really nice guy


Dave

 

[MitchM]

I agree Dave.

Regarding poor webpage design or speaking in laypersons' terms, I understand the dissatisfaction .

HOWEVER, people like Dr. Novak, or Dr.Ron Shimek (whom I took a course in Invertebrate Zoology from) do not concern themselves in how they get their message out to laypersons (myself included). It is not one of their priorities. Their priority is to be accurate and thorough in their field of expertise. They do want to have the ability to share their material with their peers, of whom most of are not. We are only the beneficiaries of their hard work and years of study.
If we try to push them to relate to us better, their work could suffer.
Let them be who they are. It is our challenge to make sense of the jargon. I have always found that, once understood, their hard work and attention to detail is evident.
Usually when we ask questions, they are often the wrong questions.
I think some of them are teachers because they need to be in order to pay the bills, their true passion is the study itself. There's not a lot of money in that.

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