Wisconsin Pond Build

[herzausstahl]

I have a 2900 gph and if you get one higher remember you can just get a diverter to send the extra water right back into the pond to add more air to the pond and that will help it stay clearer .Remember also if you get to smaller pump you will be buying another one and kicking yourself for not going bigger .I guess you can say it is like building a pond ,bigger is better .I got the bigger pump and do not look back and happy I got it now .I let some of the water go right back in the pond and some go just to the waterfall and some to the filter and some will eventually be for spitters

sissy, i think you just sold me on the 1500 gph, going to order it now, it has a threaded fitting for the outlet valve, so if it is too big I can easily add either a ball valve or a Y elbow with a ball valve on the Y outlet. best part is, it only uses 65 watts

 

[sissy]

saves money that way and the big headache after when you say ,I should have gotten the bigger one .Small hurts ,big hurts less except maybe the pocket book for now ,well in your case wallet . lol there's the women in me again

 

[herzausstahl]

So on tuesday I used the first day of the warmer weather to add some pond foam to the gorge to make sure the water flows downhill and where I want it too. It has been setting since then and I wanted to get some other projects done before I tested it with the new pump (just came in on monday).
So here is the foam on the gorge:



Here it is looking down from the top:



Closer look from the front:



I did fold up the edges and angled it all down back into the pond, but I covered this area up with mulch after the fact and I think it was wicking any water that leaked out to the surrounding area instead of letting it drain back to the pond. So I will see if it leaks at first and then add some small river rock to give the water a space to travel through before I add the mulch on top. But it is supposed to rain today so probably won't get to it until Friday or the weekend.

So today I found this rubbermaid container at walmart that I thought would be great to make a cave at the bottom of the pond for the fish and also to raise the pumps about 14" off the bottom of the pond.



I drilled holes throughout the whole thing to let if fill with water easier and I ziptied the cover on with about 15-20 zipties to keep it in place. This also meant that I had to get in the pond for the first time since i was putting in the liner last summer. It was about 75 degrees yesterday so I figured as good a day as any to do it. My wife thought it was hiliarious so she took my picture in the pond:



I am pulling up the water lilies becasue on tuesday Petco had small koi on sale for $3.99 so I caved and bought two, a comet, and a shubunkin and added them in. So I really didn't have many plants due to the design and the horsetail and cattails I planted on the edges won't be able to be reached by the fish. I also plan on getting some water lettuce and hyacinths and see how they do and probably put some in the upper pool to keep them safe from the koi, but they are only 3-4" and not sure how much they will go after the plants yet. But not to worry since i wanted to build the wildlife pond to hold plants more than anything also,but that won't be for awhile either. I got a 1/2 whiskey barrel planter to put near the deck to hold the water lily that survived the winter. I was going to put the whiskey barrel on the deck, but really no room for it, so it will probably go next to the stairs up the deck. I also added my solar lights back in and put them only on the main path that starts next to the pond and goes back to the bench in the corner of the garden, looks good so far. The cave went in easy and the pumps are on top running just fine. I did disturb everything on the bottom so when it clears I will post a picture of it. I also stuck 2 5lbs rocks in the bottom of it to weigh it down. Should give the fish a place to get out of the sun. I also should have the electrician coming out this weekend so I can add pond lights later this spring.

 

[addy1]

Very nice! like your fish cave

 

[herzausstahl]

Very nice! like your fish cave

Thanks Addy, just happened to find that walking around wally world a few weeks ago and they had them on clearance now so bought it right away. That is the double and they have a single one. Stackable with the opening in the front so you could put them in the garage or somewhere and easily reach everything. Perfect for what i wanted. I put it in the pond just like I had it in the picture so I had the larger surface to put the pumps on. I tied a rope around the handles of the pumps to tie them to eachother to help hold them in place and then extended the rope up the side through the rock cave so I can pull the pumps up easy if I need too. Would have taken pictures yesterday, but had to leave for work and the water was cloudy. Would have taken some today, but currently there is a thunderstorm outside so that will be on hold until tomorrow. Glad I added the overflow drain for the pond right now!

 

[j.w]

Very cool find Herz on the cave! You did a good looking job on the goop stuff around your rocks......blends in great w/ the liner!

 

[herzausstahl]

Thanks JW!

So today I spent part of the afternoon working on the gorge and have it done. I am pretty sure it doesn't leak but going to test it tomorrow over a period of a few hours to see what happens. I will cover those issues in a moment. Here is the finished project in action with the 1500 gph pump:



So as for the issue of determining the leak, here are the issues. I know that the upper pool is not sealed by the dam, because it will leak out overnight when the pump is turned off, at least that is what I thought. This area is marked with the green arrow. I did notice lately thought that the outlet for the pump (marked with the red arrow) that it would shake a little bit after the pump is turned off and make a "clicking" noise. Then today when i thought the gorge was leaking I shut off the pump and left it and the upper pool drained down to the point of outlets, which are one-way sump pump line valves. Now could this be because as soon as I turned off the stream pump, I started the gorge pump and this sucked the valves down? The valves open downward toward the bottom of the pool and the gorge pump sits right below them, in fact it is right below the tail of the green arrow. Just thought of this as a potential cause now. But what I did earlier is I refilled the pool, the valves seamed to have closed and the pool stayed full to the top of the dam. I started the gorge pump and let it run for 30-45 minutes and the water level dropped about 1/2 inch during this time (I checked it over an hour later and it was down about an inch) so does the dam still leak a little bit as I first believed (it usually drains to a certain level and stops) or is this a combination of that and the evaporation due to the spray from the gorge. You can see the spray on the lower rocks in some of the pictures and it is marked with the blue X's. I did check along the edges of the rocks, marked by the yellow arrows, and saw no water leaking out and if it did the edges of the liner are sloped up so it would stay in that space and drain down into the pond. So I don't believe there is a leak there and I saw none going out the back as it did the last time before I raised the back rock. The outlet hose also sits flat on the bottom of the gorge stream facing forward and I did not see any water leaking behind there (the opening from the outlet hose is marked by the blue arrow). So I turned off the gorge pump and will see how low the water drains out over night and then tomorrow I will run the gorge for a few hours at this point and see how low the water level drops, it it does at all. Mostly I just don't want a big leak that will cause the area to settle a lot or force me to refill the pond daily. I do plan on connecting the gorge pump to the same timer as the stream so they will only run at the same time. So hopefully much ado about nothing and mainly need to have a set level in the upper pool when I test for leaks, bearing in mind how much splashes on the bottom two large rocks.

Here is a pic of the new cave with the pumps sitting on top, I also moved the air pump on top of it in an attempt to cover up the pumps with the bubbles.



Here is where I placed the 1/2 whiskey barrel to hold my waterlily. It seems to still hold water without a liner, so I placed the lily in it along with a few of the horsetails i recently got, so I will have to see what happens. What does everyone prefer to fertilize their pond plants with?



I thought about trying it on the deck, but there wasn't enough room, so this way you can sit next to it on the bench, or pass it as you step onto the deck.

 

[CountryEscape]

OK, is no one going to comment on his six-pack? Looking good, Herz! :razz: Your wife just wanted us to see her good looking hubby.
And, that is a great idea for a cave/pump block! I'll have to check for something like that at my WalMart. I'm currently using a milk crate in the big pond, but need something in the smaller pond, and that would work well in both ponds. Like the idea of the cave, and that having the smooth opening for the fish, can't beat that! I wondered how you got the opening shaped like that!
I need to make an overflow on my goldfish pond, too. I have one on the koi, and it overflows into the stream, which feeds the goldfish, so the goldfish pond really got high twice this past week, had to drain it down about 3" when I got home, skimmer was under water.

 

[addy1]

lol ce.........that is from hauling all those rocks and digging a pond.

For lilies I use osmocote under the clay, add tabs off and on. All other plants are on their own, fish poop fed.

Your whole set up is looking great herz

 

[j.w]

All looks good including the muscle man,lol!

 

[herzausstahl]

LOL, thanks ladies, actually my wife was half worried that I would catch something from the pond and how gross it was that I was in there. CE...the opening comes that way, they have an open front so you can stack them and reach what is inside. I found them on an endcap here, but I bet if you ask about them, they might have some somewhere. I just put the cover on, drilled holes through it and the container and fed a zip tie through and tied the cover down that way. Then I cut off the excess from the ties, and drilled holes in the rest of it.

Has anyone ever used the Jobe's plant spikes? Mostly looking for in the 1/2 whiskey barrel where there won't be any fish, unless I place a few minnows in it once the lily grows more to keep mosquitos down, or might just get the mosquito dunks for it.

 

[j.w]

I've just put the Jobe's tomato spikes in my water lilies but won't know how they do till the seasons done. First time ever using them. I hear you can use Jobe's tree spikes also and just break them up into 4 pieces. There are others out there you can use also.The first # of the fertilizer isn't supposed to be over 15 using the spikes they say............like 15-15-15 etc.

 

[CountryEscape]

As with everything else, if it says "pond" on the packaging, it will be 2-3 times as much as normal other product. So, look at the pond plant tablets, then look at other fertilizer tablets and compare ingredients. I'm sure they are all very much the same. If not, someone will chime in here. But, as JW says, look at the number of the ingredients and find off brand spikes or tablets to use instead that will be cheaper. I'd like to know what it is that would make any fertilizer bad for a pond, other than the fact that it will promote algae as well as healthier plants. That's why you don't use liquid fertilizer, rather spikes that you can push into the clay of the pots and keep it in that pot for use of that specific plant.
And, I bought a plant at the landscaping place today, actually 2 plants and noticed that the ones I bought there about a month ago, when it got chilly afterwards, are not near as big as the ones they have now. I'm sure mine got stunted in the cold, and theirs got extra fertilizer and warmer temps in a greenhouse. Hoping to pick up some cheap fertilizer spikes myself this weekend, or beginning of the week.

 

[j.w]

Many pond fertilizers promote green growth or root growth with high nitrogen or potash instead of phosphorus which promotes blooms.
Jobes tomato spikes have 6-18-6 to promote blooms w/ the high middle # which is phosphorus.

1. Major Ingredients: Most commercial fertilizers have 3 numbers on the front label, separated by dashes. For example: 5-10-5. This is the fertilizer analysis or percentage by weight of the 3 major nutrients plants need: nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium, in that order. These are abbreviated as N-P-K.
   So if you purchased a 10 pound bag of fertilizer labeled 5-10-5, it would contain 5% nitrogen, 10% phosphorus and 5% potassium. The remaining 80% could be comprised of other nutrients and filler.
2. 1st Number = Nitrogen: The first number gives the concentration of nitrogen in the product. Nitrogen encourages foliage growth, among other benefits. A 5-10-5 fertilizer would contain 5% nitrogen by weight. So for every pound of fertilizer applied there is really only .05 pounds of nitrogen. (The 10 pound bag mentioned above would contain .5 lb. nitrogen.)
3. 2nd Number = Phosphorous: The middle number refers to the concentration of phosphorous. Phosphorous contributes to many fundamental plant processes such as rooting and setting flower buds. A 5-10-5 fertilizer would contain 10% phosphorous by weight or .1 pounds of phosphorous. (The 10 pound bag mentioned above would contain 1 lb. of phosphorus.)
4. 3rd Number = Potassium: The final number states the concentration of potassium. Potassium contributes to the overall health and vigor of plants. Again, a 5-10-5 fertilizer would contain 5% potassium by weight or .05 pounds of potassium. (The 10 pound bag mentioned above would contain .5 lb. potassium.)
5. Complete Fertilizers: Fertilizers that contain all three major nutrients are considered complete fertilizers. There are specialized fertilizers which are called incomplete because they lack one or more major nutrients such as a fertilizer labeled 0-20-20.
6. Fertilizer Ratio (An easier comparison): An easier way to compare the numbers is to break them down to the fertilizer ratio or the amounts of the 3 major nutrients in relation to each other. A 5-10-5 fertilizer has a ratio of 1-2-1. This becomes important when looking for a fertilizer for a specific need. A 1-2-1 ratio is often recommended for vegetables, which need plenty of phosphorous to set fruit. 1-2-1 could be 5-10-5, 10-20-10 or any similar extrapolation.
7. Other Ingredients: Any additional ingredients will be listed on the side label. This may include other nutrients like calcium, magnesium, iron, micronutrients and even the percentage of organic matter.
8. Organic fertilizers: Organic fertilizers must specify which nutrient(s) is organic and it must be identified as either synthetic and/or natural, by percentage. For example: 20% of Nitrogen organic (6% synthetic, 14% organic). When a fertilizer is labeled "organic", it simply means it v

 

[herzausstahl]

Thanks for all the info JW, have read all that somewhere but forget. I didn't know if there was any difference between fertilizers (i.e. dissolve rates in standing water vs not) but I think I will give the ones I have a try. They are the Jobe's spikes for houseplants so as such they are 13-4-5 to encourage the foliage growth that most want in their houseplants and seeing as these are for the plants in the whiskey barrel, I'll give them a try.

So yesterday I figured the gorge wasn't leaking, it was just seeping down the stream outlet so I redid it. I took off the outlet I had made leaving the same opening I had last summer, but I didn't want the bubbler so I stacked rocks around the opening. Here are the end results:



Here is a better pic of the whiskey barrel:



I also got the electrician out and added some more outlets. I also added a switch for half the outlets so I can plug the pumps in that overwinter in the pond and turn the power off to them. This way they stay weatherproofed without running and without me having to make a container to put them in. I also added a switch for the whole circuit in case I ever have to do what Haro does and use a 1500 watt deicer and turn it on a few times a week to melt a hole in the ice. This way I can do that from the garage. So here is what it looks like:



The timer works great so far and happy with it. It starts the stream and the gorge at 8am and turns them off at 9pm (no I am not an early bird and not outside before 8 if I can help it). I also made a new cover for all the outlets that will double as a table for the bench or could be used as a planter.