Water Changes

[Smaug]

I see that water changes are frowned upon by many here. I can't understand that. Water changes are the best possible way to keep a healthy algae free pond. Many of you use chemicals for algae or phosphate control. Chemicals over water changes? I use no chems,have very little algae,am overstocked and get large amounts of leaves and my fish breed and are very healthy. Why? Water changes,usually 3 times a year 25% or so at a time. When I know it's going to rain hard I remove an appropriate amount of water to get a free water change and if conditions are right that means I get 10 small water changes a year to go along with my 3 big ones. My aquarium water change schedule is even better,25% on all three tanks a week and one of them is a sw reef. To not do water changes is to force the fish to swim and live in there own filth, unless yiu have a truly massive mechanical /biological filter system then you aren't removing much at all. People with big lightly stocked ponds can get away with no water changes for longer but toxins build up,the only way they really get gone is through water change.

 

[Lisak1]

Well, you defined The biggest cause of pond water issues - overstocking.

And what if you're wrong? What if water changes AREN'T the only way toxins "get gone" in ponds? What if I told you that plants and bacteria (the biofilm) play an important part in maintaining a healthy pond? Would you consider another possibility? Because if you're stuck in "there is only one right way land" then any further conversation is pointless.

 

[MitchM]

Hi smaug, thanks for participating in this discussion.

I've kept freshwater aquariums for 40 years and saltwater for 30. Corals consume and deposit minerals that need to be replenished, no disagreement there. Replenishing the minerals via water changes is necessary. Replenishing the minerals via supplementation is difficult because tests are not reliably available for all the minerals deplenished. A calcium reactor that dissolves coral skeletons can help, but sometimes you can add phosphorus, depending on the source you're using for the material in your calcium reactor. Adding phosphrous to your reef will result in algae problems, as you know.

Freshwater environments though, do not consume minerals. Iron is the only mineral that can be lacking for our fw plants to thrive. Otherwise, why do a water change?
Overstocking is unhealthy and puts stress on the ecosystem as a whole.

.

 

[Smaug]

I didn't make my post with the intention to have a conversation about it. I put my point on this thread to add my knowledge . I successfully keep very healthy fish and environments this way so I know it works and has merit.

 

[MitchM]

That's too bad, Smaug.
A closed mind is unable to learn.

 

[barryian]

barryian, do you use water changes as a means of supplementing your filtration?
Water changes will dilute a pollutant, but otherwise, why would you do them?
You can upset your fish's osmotic balance, causing them stress by doing a water change.

Hi Mitch - Well, I don't see that a 10-20% water change is upsetting the osmotic balance of a fish. I think a large ph change would do that.
Agreed, the filtration does quite a lot and my filtration is overkill. Your reason is exactly the reason that I do the changes and that is pollution.
Also, water changes keep down the phosphates and proteins which help fish growth. I recall with my old pond, the fish perked up. In my new pond, it's not that noticeable which tells me the water quality is better as they're always perky and swimming around. For that reason, less changes are necessary. I'm not sure if this is completely valid but I was always under the impression that the changes kept the bacteria and whatever might be lurking, down in numbers to a degree. Seems like common sense. So ....
I'd say it's like preventive medicine. If the koi are healthy, they'll not be affected by whatever is lurking in the pond such as aeromonas, but water changes would keep the numbers down. My pond is a clean healthy dedicated koi pond also, not a garden pond where changes would be unnecessary. Please correct me if I'm off base somewhere. Thanks.

 

[Smaug]

I didn't come here to learn. I got it down pretty good.

 

[morewater]

I didn't come here to learn. I got it down pretty good.

Well, that was a snarky reply. What did you come here for? Pats on the back? Laurel wreaths?

 

[barryian]

Well, that was a snarky reply. What did you come here for? Pats on the back? Laurel wreaths?

This was anything having to do with something I said above, I hope?

 

[morewater]

This was anything having to do with something I said above, I hope?

Nope. Nothing to do with anything you posted, barryian.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

What did you come here for? Pats on the back? Laurel wreaths?

I'm here because my social life sucks.

As for water changes, I believe there are good reasons for doing water changes in fish stocked aquariums, the reasons get watered down a little (pun intended) when it comes to outdoor ponds and water gardens, but many of the reasons could still be valid. However, as has been pointed out, there are some (possible) negatives to doing water changes that should be considered. To me the biggest negative would be just the hassle factor of doing a large water change in a large pond.
I remember on one occasion (before I started doing trickle water changes) when I had started a small water change just before going out for dinner at some friends. We were about to leave the house but I figured I could sneak in a quick small water change in my pond before leaving. My water changes involved just running the hose with unchlorinated water into the pond for a while and letting the water overflow. A few hours later that evening, while we were eating our supper I suddenly remembered what I had started back home. Well, I had to excuse myself in the middle of the meal and run home to turn off the hose, which was on full blast. I probably did a 300% water change that evening.
It was after that incident that realized that if I was going to do water changes in my pond I needed to find an easier way to not screw up. I started doing trickle water changes and have never looked back.

 

[morewater]

I suppose that I do water "changes" periodically in that my overflow drains evacuate water during a rainstorm, or that I "top off" the pond during the hot summer months for water that's been lost to evaporation and/or waterfall splash. However, as to dedicated water changes. Nope. I'll occasionally need to drain a pond for accumulated debris removal (ie. it's too deep to safely stand in wearing bib waders), but this is a rare occurrence and generally encountered when someone "inherits" a pond during a home purchase. Disposal of the water removed can be a challenge given pond location in that it sometimes requires the 150' fire hose and a 5000gph pump to reach either a suitable property location for the dump, or to reach the municipal storm drain.

I've had requests from people that don't have enough water pressure in their well system to pump water from a nearby stream or river. In Ontario, you need a permit to remove water from a natural water system. In instances such as this, a water truck delivery is needed. That's pricey, but sometimes the only option.

Years ago, my youngest son decided that our pond looked a little low on a hot summer day, so like a good young fella he decided to top it up with the hose (municipal water source). He then left the hose running and went to do something else. I woke the next morning to hear that strange sound that one hears when the hose is running, looked out the second floor master bedroom window and thought "Damn, that pond looks full. It didn't rain last night, did it?". Then I saw orange and yellow glints in the water.

All the koi were belly-up. Son was very apologetic and offered to pay for new fish. I didn't say anything to him but took him to a local Koi retailer the same day. I think he was a little shocked at the price of $160 per fish (comparable to the size of the fish lost). There were 14 of them. I don't think he liked the math.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

I don't think he liked the math.

LOL
Yes that sort of thing happens all the time, even when people are just intending on topping up their ponds. Another task that is automatically accomplished with a trickle water change system.
However, just topping off a pond can't really be considered a proper "water change" since it does not remove unwanted things like waste, toxins or mineral build up, although it may still add some some minerals and nutrients, to some degree, that the pond water may be lacking.
And yes, if you live in an area with moderate to heavy rainfall you'll likely benefit from water changes done automatically, whether you believe they are necessary or not. Another reason water changes in ponds may not be as important as they are in aquariums.

 

[barryian]

I'm here because my social life sucks.

As for water changes, I believe there are good reasons for doing water changes in fish stocked aquariums, the reasons get watered down a little (pun intended) when it comes to outdoor ponds and water gardens, but many of the reasons could still be valid. However, as has been pointed out, there are some (possible) negatives to doing water changes that should be considered. To me the biggest negative would be just the hassle factor of doing a large water change in a large pond.
I remember on one occasion (before I started doing trickle water changes) when I had started a small water change just before going out for dinner at some friends. We were about to leave the house but I figured I could sneak in a quick small water change in my pond before leaving. My water changes involved just running the hose with unchlorinated water into the pond for a while and letting the water overflow. A few hours later that evening, while we were eating our supper I suddenly remembered what I had started back home. Well, I had to excuse myself in the middle of the meal and run home to turn off the hose, which was on full blast. I probably did a 300% water change that evening.
It was after that incident that realized that if I was going to do water changes in my pond I needed to find an easier way to not screw up. I started doing trickle water changes and have never looked back.

Just an FYI - I rarely have to top off and I put a 1-1/2" pvc into my Savio which empties into a 50 gallon dry well. Never have to backwash water out out from heavy rains which use to be one big pain. As for the ease of a water change, it takes me a few minutes to backwash 400 gallons ( 20%) out and I now know exactly how long it takes to fill that amount. I set my iphone countdown timer which screams and I'm back out there to shut it off. At the same time, I use the blower on the bead filter media, e start the backwashing process and get both done. That iphone comes in handy ... lol ...
I guess my passion trumps the work & makes it fun. When it becomes work, well then, the fun has ended. So far, it's been a passion for 23 years
btw - I have messed up but not long enough luckily to come out see my koi floating ... bummer ...

 

[Mucky_Waters]

..
I guess my passion trumps the work & makes it fun. When it becomes work, well then, the fun has ended. So far, it's been a passion for 23 years

I imagine that's the most important thing with most hobbies, however I also enjoy finding more efficient ways of doing things.
Another "hobby" I have is heating our house with wood. We drive into the bush, cut down our own trees, buck them, haul them home, split them, and stack them in a woodshed I built. Believe me that's a lot more work then doing a water change or cleaning my pond filters. It really doesn't even save us that much money, especially when you consider the work and time involved which also involves continuously bringing in wood and feeding the wood stove rather then just turning up the thermostat on the wall. But I enjoy our forays into the bush and falling trees, and everybody likes watching a fireplace and feeling the warmth of a wood stove in their house. So like you say, "the passion trumps the work".