Val and I are in total shock.

[callingcolleen1]

Check out what I did to my fish tank top in my winter Greenhouse!! Made the greenhouse all myself so I can escape the cold Canadian winters. It turned out so awesome you really have to look!

 

[callingcolleen1]

This was two years ago, before I covered my half my ponds, and it was a Mild winter that year!. You can see that it was only -20 and the one red heater was having trouble keeping up with all four connecting ponds, so the next year I decided to construct cattle panel cold frames to conserve heat and save energy. Even though the pond is heated, you can clearly see that is still Ice Cold.

and then a few years back, before I added the bigger upper top pond. I had three ponds running with one 1500 watt cattle trough heater.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Do you have any problems with mold on the room walls?

.

Not on the walls, but I do get condensation on the tanks and lines that have cold water running through them, and a light film of mildew forms there over time, but it's very minimal and easy to wipe off. I try to wipe all the tanks and plumbing down once a year with a mild bleach solution.
The walls and ceiling are wood framed and insulated with a minimum of R20 fiberglass insulation, then wrapped with poly vapor barrier, then covered with that 2" R10 pink styrofoam board insulation so see in the picture. The walls never get cold enough to have any condensation on them. That can't be said for the metal access door. That was a bit of a problem the first couple winters. When it got very cold outside the frost would build-up on and around the door jamb on the inside and seal it shut or nearly shut. I finally solved that problem by buying a 3" sheet of styrofoam insulation board and cutting it to fit as a plug inside the door jamb. I install it when the pond starts to freeze and remove it when the ice is gone.

Some pictures of the frosty door.

 

[Dave 54]

Not on the walls, but I do get condensation on the tanks and lines that have cold water running through them, and a light film of mildew forms there over time, but it's very minimal and easy to wipe off. I try to wipe all the tanks and plumbing down once a year with a mild bleach solution.
The walls and ceiling are wood framed and insulated with a minimum of R20 fiberglass insulation, then wrapped with poly vapor barrier, then covered with that 2" R10 pink styrofoam board insulation so see in the picture. The walls never get cold enough to have any condensation on them. That can't be said for the metal access door. That was a bit of a problem the first couple winters. When it got very cold outside the frost would build-up on and around the door jamb on the inside and seal it shut or nearly shut. I finally solved that problem by buying a 3" sheet of styrofoam insulation board and cutting it to fit as a plug inside the door jamb. I install it when the pond starts to freeze and remove it when the ice is gone.

Some pictures of the frosty door.

Thanx Mucky I'm taking allot of notes here for when we start our project in late spring, I may PM you for a few more pointers as we start the project . .
Would you believe it our clocks went forwards tonight meaning its British Summer time not mean time as in winter, mind you to step outside you can still believe it to be winter and they are forecasting more snow for Easter weekend brrrr it be cold out .
One thing that might help you in your shed which we aim to put in ours would be a 800 watt oil heater .
You know the ones you switch them on the get up to heat switch off then slowly loose heat until they switch back on again.
We think that the heater heating the air would have the effect of raising the water temperature a degree or two .
@callingcolleen1 sorry couldn't resist it but you left yourself open to it , you really did but at least its cheered everyone up including yourself for these cold early spring days and nights

Dave 54

 

[Dave 54]

@Mucky_Waters a few question I can think of off from the top of my head at this moment to start with :-
1) In time is the summer heat , how does your shed cope with it ? .
2) How many degrees extra would it push the water temperature upwards in the summer ?.
3) Do these extra degrees if any, cause your koi any stress at all ?.
4) How do you go about shedding any heat that does build up inside your shed ?.
Our own shed being all plastic has vents just under the roof spaces to allow for air flow and also has a window.
At the moment I am unsure if the window open's at all as the two models we saw where smaller version's one with a window one without
5) We are replacing all our existing filters as you know and thinking about it, they all have lids (would this help stop condensation building up in the winter ?
6) Without lids how much evaporation is going on during the summer (I'm unsure if you have them in your shed or not my friend), so which is it yes / no?
In advance my friend thanx for taking the time to answer all my questions


Dave 54

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Dave the same insulation that keeps the cold winter out in the winter also keeps the heat from the sun out in the summer. It does get rather warm and humid in there at the peak of the summer but that warmth and humidity actually comes from the pond water circulating through the room. In the summer the 3 tanks are full of water and by then the pond water is warmed up so the tanks release some of that warmth (and humidity) in the pump/filter room, but frankly, condensation really isn't much of a problem at all in the summer. I do have a couple of small vent holes I keep open to allow some air circulation, which I am sure helps eliminate some of the humidity. When you'll most notice the warmth in there is first thing in the morning when the air outside is still cool and the sun hasn't had a chance to start warming up the day. This is especially true in the later summer or early fall when the pond water is still very warm but the mornings are getting cool, you enter that room and you immediately feel the warmth and humidity.
So to sum it up, the room temperature in there is moderated more by the pond water temperature than the outside air temperature. The only time that isn't true is if I decide to do some work in there in the dead of winter, like when I decide to wipe the tanks down with a mild bleach solution, I like to crank up the little heater and warm the room up. However, I don't think that would be a very efficient way of heating the pond water, you'd be better off putting some sort of heater directly in the water.
If you are planning to build something like that for your pond I'd advice you to make sure it is sealed and insulated very well, I don't know how well any pre-fabricated shed would be sealed and insulated. I wouldn't want windows in there, for sure you'd have a big problem with condensation forming on the windows, especially if you had open tanks, besides I'm sure you plan to have power in there, so just wire up lights. Skip the window.
Do you already have a concrete or block filter pit that you could build directly on top of?

 

[Dave 54]

Well this was the first time we could get the covers off totally today as for once it has been up to 13c , however the covers will have to go back on at night so we have had a chance to take an in-depth look at what we have in the pond that has survived we have a a small Douitsu Goromo , a small Sanke , a small Kujaku and the oldest and largest koi is a mid sized Koromo .
All are in good condition apart from the Douitsu who has a bit of Koi pox but is otherwise in good condition, all are eager eaters, all are swimming individually and are not huddled together on the bottom of the pond.
So as such I can say that no parasites in the pond and no gram negative bacteria, so you could say that all is well with the remaining koi, water tests show all water the perameter's as normal
i still think the changes made caused the deaths of the rest of the koi and my best bet is we super chilled the pond with the changes we made last year .
@Mucky_Waters we have a set of four footings which are concreted flag stones on which to put the base of the shed on so it will be built on strong and very level footings , all the waste water pipes running from the four filters presently in place is going to be reconfigured and connected back to the burried section of pipe leading down to our drain .
No window eh noted but i did want one so I could peak out and watch the koi un - observed and to stop condensation have a square of insulation that would sit perfectly over the window when not in use (do you think that would work) to stop condensation or is it still a bad idea ?
None of the filters will be open to the air as they all have lids which will only come off during my maintenance periods the main one being the easy pod then the small vortex and bay filter followed by the Oase 15000 which will polish any water through it .
Both the Easy pod and the oase will have UV-C's or could I just use the Evolution Aqua 55 watt UV-C connected in line after the Easy Pod ?
I'm glad that the insulation does a double job (cold out in winter , heat out in the summer)., it being 6ft x 8ft gives me allot of room to play with inside so I plan a work station for my other microscope net storage etc plus room to inspect any koi I've put under to scrape or do minor surgery on .
Where do you put the beer pump bro I mean after all it will also double as a man cave
As to the 800 watt Oil heated radiator we did trial of it in the existing filter housing and it did raise the temperature by a couple of degree's however the base became covered by an ants nest ( I suppose they liked the warmth so they took it over ) after all we did dig up then seal in their nest under concrete when Jeff removed the 5 tons of soil rocks etc .
Now may i please ask what style of insulation you used inside the shed , we were planning to use the silver sided insulation so if you know of anything better pray say ?
i do have an Oase water fall and aquatic plant garden which like you we could switch over to the under water pipe which is situated 2 ft underwater , or have on the water fall during the summer months, it was part of the setup when I bought it and thrown in as a bit of a free bee, I've never used one before but it should help and also add a tad more greenery around the pond.
Would you say we have most of the main points covered or is there more to think through ? .



Dave 54

 

[Lisak1]

my best bet is we super chilled the pond

Are we agreeing that by "super chilled" you mean "cooled it more than my koi were accustomed to" as opposed to the scientific term "super cool" which means taking water below the freezing point without it turning to ice and can only happen when water is free of minerals?

 

[Tula]

@Dave 54 and @Mucky_Waters , there is a lady I follow on a koi forum and she has a window in her filter house. I've not noticed condensation, but she lives in the state of Washington, so perhaps it's more temperate ?

She often takes videos through her window, under the winter cover, during winter...which is really neat

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Dave I know how you feel about the man cave aspect of hanging out in there. Over the years I have spent a lot of time in there changing things and tweaking things around and thoroughly enjoyed it. In fact, because I like to tinker I may get as much or more pleasure out of the filtering aspect of things as I do the landscaping and taking care of the pond flora and fauna itself. However, my "Man Cave" is my shop which is right beside the filter room, the entrance doors face each other and are only 7 ft away. I'll post a few more pictures and you can see the view of the pump room looking out the shop door, and a view of the shop door looking from inside the pump room.
I'll also post a picture inside the pump room what it looks like right now in winter set up mode. The closest two tanks are empty and the Protein Skimmer on the right is disconnected for the winter, and the waterfall pump you see on the right is off for the winter as well.
As you can see there isn't much room for anything else in the pump room anyway (it's only 4 ft 6" x 9 ft) , the tanks and the pumps take up most of the room other than the shelf on the left which holds a spare pump and some filter material and a spare filter canister hanging underneath, and a bit of a shelf near the back that supports the protein skimmer.
As far as the window and the insulation goes, you could make a plug for the window out of rigid styrofoam insulation and that is what I would insulate your pump room walls and ceiling with as well. It has a good R-value for its thickness and it is moisture proof. And if you can insulate the walls of your pump room first and vapor barrier them too, then put the rigid insulation over top of that, you'll have a well insulated little shack. Keep in mind though that this stuff does not handle the UV from the sun very well, so you don't want to leave it sitting in the sun, and that means the window plug. Probably the best (cheapest) way to protect the window plug would be to paint it with some foam safe UV protectant paint, especially on the side that faces the sun.

Looking at the Pump/Filter room from inside the shop.To the right of the door you can see the rigid styrofoam plug I use for that doorway in the winter. Beer fridge is 6 ft that way >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>

Looking at the Shop. In this picture, the beer fridge is about 6 ft to the left of the shop door

The Pump/Filter room set up for winter.
The closest tank in this picture is a bit overexposed because the sun was shining on it.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

@Dave 54 and @Mucky_Waters , there is a lady I follow on a koi forum and she has a window in her filter house. I've not noticed condensation, but she lives in the state of Washington, so perhaps it's more temperate ?

She often takes videos through her window, under the winter cover, during winter...which is really neat

Well, if you've been following this thread then you must have seen the pictures I posted of the frost on the inside of my metal access door, and that door is insulated too, maybe not much of an R-value, but probably better than a window would have. Perhaps she cleans the window before shooting the video, or perhaps it is warmer where she lives, but I'm only 30 minutes North of the Washington state border.
Regardless A rigid styrofoam insulation plug would be best, not only for holding heat in but it would also block out the light and help reduce the amount of algae that might grow in the filter tanks.
Do you have a link to the video?

 

[Tula]

This is just short video. She's built a very nice filter house, so I'll have to search for more video.

 

[Tula]

This is a picture of the outside, obviously not in cold weather. @Mucky_Waters I completely believe and can see, the frost build up you describe, just wanted to share her experience since @Dave 54 discussed a window. I can look later for inside pictures of her filter house, she has it nicely finished.

 

[Dave 54]

I doubt very much I would be suffering from any algae issues as all these filters have good coverage with lids in the case of the first two filters that rest on top of the filters with good overlap with one the other that sort of locks in place then the Oase 15000 which is a totally sealed Unit I had enough of trying to iliminate the light coming into our old filter housing through the lids which where of white polyicarbonate with the earlier model being double glazed but the we had problems with heat blowing a thermometer at 50c ouch (scrap that idea) so now we are buying the shed

This is a picture of the outside, obviously not in cold weather. @Mucky_Waters I completely believe and can see, the frost build up you describe, just wanted to share her experience since @Dave 54 discussed a window. I can look later for inside pictures of her filter house, she has it nicely finished.

@Tula why do I get the feeling that that window is double glazed ?
Now I am wondering if I can get one just to fit in the window which as of yet I have not seen because the model of shed I want i;e the 6ft x 8ft I have yet to view which I might just do by going on their website later today..

Dave 54

 

[Mucky_Waters]

This is a picture of the outside, obviously not in cold weather. @Mucky_Waters I completely believe and can see, the frost build up you describe, just wanted to share her experience since @Dave 54 discussed a window. I can look later for inside pictures of her filter house, she has it nicely finished.

I had a look at some more of that Cheryl's videos on her youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1s9ZMSVx-JPh_RKXO-drgQ
I think she has done a great job with all her plumbing and the whole concept, but there is at least a couple issue I would have done differently and I see as potential problems.
(1) the pumps location.
She put the pumps right on the ground, that is a bad Idea, better to elevate them so if there is any flooding there are not so susceptible to getting damaged by the water. Great that she installed a drain pit with a sump pump for that, but she goes on to say she has already had some flooding in there from the one tank at the opposite end of the room from the sump area right next to one of her pumps and lost 1 ft of water from her pond. Better to raise the pumps a foot or two off the ground, there is no reason to leave them right on the ground.

(2) Vapor barrier.
Looking at the video below I see it looks like she insulated her pump/filter room but did not install a vapor barrier at all. I guarantee what will happen over time is moisture in the air will seep through the gaps in the cedar siding on the walls and ceiling and permeate into that insulation and cause mold issues. @Mitch recognizes that that would be an issue in a confined space with open water like that, that is why he was quizzing me about mold in my pump room.
Unfortunately, the moisture condensation and inevitable mold issue that Cheryl will get will develop behind the siding unseen from Cheryl's eyes. This sort of thing happens in old homes all the time and the black mold that develops is a very serious health issue. She could still fix the issue by installing a vapor barrier over the siding but I see that her last video was 2 years ago and two winters have passed since then, perhaps it is too late???

Most of her tanks have lids but she has a Baki type shower in there too so you can count on there being a lot of humidity in the air in that room.