The pond dig has begun!

[CountryEscape]

OK, so this morning I go outside, fully expecting there to be water by the filter, and it was still wet, but not water standing. Water level was down at least 3". Then I notice water on the outside of the bog wall .... :-( I'm totally bummed, not knowing now where my leak is. I have the filter running the waterfall, but shut off the bog, so will see if the pond level continues to lower, or if the bog water lowers. I can't imagine that I tore the liner in any way while I was reworking the bog last weekend. I was standing in there, but on the pea gravel, as far as I know, no sharp stones were in there. And, when/if I find a leak in the liner, I have no idea how to fix it! Guess I'll have to figure that out when the time comes, if that's the real problem.
Here's a picture of the difference in water clarity between goldfish pond and koi pond. Doesn't seem that bad but sure is awful. Shows what a little murkiness does to clarity in a pond.

And I checked water parameters this morning in koi pond. All following were zero - ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, PH is 8.0, and KH/GH were in the 200-250 ppm, which my paper says is right in the middle of what goldfish like. So, at least the water tests good, just need to swap some of that out and try to clear it up with some water changes. Think instead of huge change like I originally planned, I'll do several smaller changes. Already did a 3" water change last night, and will need to add that much again today, after I see if the level of the pond and/or bog drop during the day today.
Think instead of messing with the pond this morning, and since things are dryer here, I'm going to finish fixing the wildflower bed and sow the seed in that today. We have a 40% chance of rain here tomorrow, so maybe it will get a nice shower on it. At least I will feel like I've accomplished something! Then, if time, I should get my sidewalk expansion going so I can use tractor to move the dirt necessary to build it up. Ho hum .... hopefully something positive will come out of this day as far as where my koi pond is leaking ...

 

[sissy]

koi always produce more waste and need more filtering and it will cause algae bloom and they love to just root and mess up the water more .Hope you find the leak

 

[CountryEscape]

Dang, to make matters worse, while I was draining the filter, the silicone seal bumped loose, so then I had a leak going on there. So, emptied the filter, put all filter media in a large tub with pond water, after rinsing them off (pretty mucky in there ...). Used the PL roofing goop to reseal the weir and screws, and then just now I got to thinking that might not have been the best choice. I think Addy said it was a good thing to use for sticking rocks in place, but not really waterproof .... so if she says not waterproof, I'll be redoing that tomorrow.
So, here's the deal with the bog. I turn on the skimmer, which feeds the bog with the new PVC pipes at the bottom, and the bog leaks, turn off skimmer, water level in bog drops about 2", leak stops, or at least is very minimal. So, I think I'm in luck, the leak is in the top 2" of the liner! Nope. I pulled the landscape rocks away on about 3' of that wall, which is 3 blocks high, and there is carpet behind the liner, and the carpet is not even wet until it gets down to about 6" deep and below. What I can't figure out for the life of me is why it only leaks when the skimmer is on, unless there is a hole right below one of the holes in the PVC, and it's shooting the water out with pressure? BUT, that would mean that the water is coming out of the liner underground, and then traveling up about 8" to drain away. Does this sound likely? I mowed this afternoon, as I knew I needed some time to think through all the possibilities, and I still don't have a clear answer. Tomorrow I'm going to turn the skimmer on, pump the water into the bog, with the landscape stones pulled away, and see if I can tell where the leak is. I'll have to push the carpeting out of the way somehow, maybe just cut it away (yeah, I'll be careful if I decide to do that!) so I can see if the leak is possibly above ground level, or if it's below. I'm NOT looking forward to totally emptying the bog 2 weekends in a row, that's for sure. The only plus side is that at least this time there won't be any black muck, since no more dirt in pots in there.
Any help or things for me to check for on this leak will be greatly appreciated!
And, I did about an 800 gallon water change today, plus maybe another 200 gallons last night, so will see if that helps the water clarity at all in the coming week.

 

[j.w]

CE I wish there was something I could say to help you but I haven't a clue. Weird that it only leaks when the skimmer is running. I don't know anything about bogs or skimmers so I'm of no help. Sure hope it's something that you can find soon and is an easy fix. I did a big water change today also. I do it once in awhile. I just do it slowly for most of the day............pump some out while hosing some in. I don't really have a filter for my pond right now so this will have to do. Fish seem to like it when I add the hose splashing down on them.

 

[sissy]

Can the carpet be wicking water from some where around the liner top .I had that happen with the landscape fabric up by the water fall,I did not look at it closely when I laid it out and put all the marble chips around the out side of the waterfall .One piece was under a waterfall rock and it was sucking water from the waterfall. I don't like carpet or carpet padding under the liner as it can give it to much cushioning and cause punctures .When my neighbor and her hubby did theres they used it and kept loosing water and they asked me and we ended up taking the whole thing apart because for a month or more we kept looking for the leak and gave up and we took it apart and took the padding out and hung the liner up to look for holes and there was 4 of them and funny thing she said that is where her hubby went in the pond to see what was going on .Mind this as her hubby does go over 2 hundred pounds and that was a factor as the padding was to cushiony and I am guessing that the heavy clay under it rubbed and caused the holes .They were funny shapes to the holes and we found no stones at all ,just lumpy clay .We did smooth the whole bottom out and pack it tight and even used a little sand and packed that down hard and smooth .Bought a new liner and used the landscape fabric for under layment and so far good . 2 layers of it with holes poked in it all over so it would not hold water .We spent hours poking holes in the fabric before we put it in .

 

[CountryEscape]

Good ideas, Sissy, but I thought of the wicking situation, and have not noticed that it is anywhere above the water line. The weird thing is that the carpet is wet about 4" below the water line when it's leaking. I looked this morning, and carpet is wet but lower, more like ground level, so I'm guessing that there is a hole in the bottom, and likely where I stepped while in the bog cleaning it out. UGH!!!! Going to have to redo it all this morning and I will be looking over the whole liner, at least the end that I'm going to undo/redo that is. Not sure I will unload all that pea gravel again, but maybe so!
To make matters worse, I've noticed (or not noticed in this regard) that my large yellow koi has been AWOL lately, last 2 days. Even fed this morning, hoping to see her, but nothing. And, while I was netting out the koi pond yesterday, I kept running into what I assumed were rocks. Now, I know I've told you all that I'm petrified of snapping turtles but I got to thinking ... what if there IS a snapper in the koi pond, and it has eaten the yellow fish, and that's why the pond is smelly as of yesterday, or at least that's when I noticed the smell. I have seen no sign of a dead fish anywhere, so maybe that's not the issue, as I would guess that if the snapper caught that fish, it would have let at least some of it get away, and wouldn't that have floated up to the surface, or I would have netted it? I'm beginning to wonder about other predators as well. I'm sick over losing fish, but I have never seen a heron even close to my house, much less my farm pond. I did seen one flying over while I was riding horse the other day, I was a mile away, but watched it and it went far north of my property, so didn't come here. I'm thinking it's time to leave Yukon outside during the day. I know he won't be in my yard the whole time, but he will be on the deck at least by afternoon on hot days, when it's in the sun, and he can keep a watch out for me.
Filter is good at the bottom, one of the bolts is leaking at the top, but I will dry it out and fix that and then fill it later this afternoon. It's a very slow leak, but I want it leakfree before I set it back up. I have the pipe just running water over the waterfall so that the parrots feather that are on the falls part won't get dried out. No filtration going on in my koi pond right now, but that's just going to have to wait until leaks are repaired.
Heading out now to work on the bog. 10 a.m. .... wonder what time I'll get it done! If I do a complete redo, it will probably go faster, as then I can get to look at ALL of the liner in the bog. And, there had better not be a snapper dug into the bog. If there is, let me tell you, I WILL be getting out my 9mm and he/she will not live through the day! LOL Sorry, but big turtles are NOT allowed in my pond! And, if that pond would ever clear up, at least then I could search the bottom for any sign of a turtle, too. Right now, I'm scared to walk in there, even with tennis shoes on, but I may do it anyhow, put on my mask and snorkel and see what I can find. Was in the goldfish pond yesterday, got all the stones out of the bottom. Now it has a very clean bottom. Woohoo!!! And I can see the snails again.

 

[j.w]

That sounds like a big job taking the bog all apart! Hope you find the leak and hope you don't find a turtle in there or in the pond. YIkes but can't you just haul him off somewhere instead of killing him? Seems like if there is another one in there you will get more. Will a little fence keep them out?

 

[addy1]

CE the pl roofing goop is water proof, I used it to install my skimmer, the pond foam lets water seep out, you should be ok. So sorry about your leak problem. One thing I like about the liner we used, we even drove the tractor on it without any issues. (dumping pea gravel)

 

[CountryEscape]

Yep, Addy, I realized that later about the roofing goop vs. foam stuff for rocks. It worked very well!!!
I have no idea why I got this hole, unless something was in there that was trying to dig through it, which is my best guess. The hole is not some tiny spot, it was the size of my pinkie finger tip! All the pea gravel and plants removed, liner pulled back, was about to give up and buy another liner, then looked on the far side of the bog, and there was the hole. So, that water was soaking under the bog, coming up on the one spot, and seeping out onto the ground.

Patched the hole, hope it works! For now, I only have the pipe and water in the bog, will watch it for a few days to see if anything comes out, or if the water level drops again. So far so good, though! Decided not worth hauling that pea gravel out again until I'm sure my patch will hold.

Then, as if Someone knew I needed a boost today, I found Aris! Well, I'm not positive, but in my mind, it's the same red slider turtle that was in my pond last summer. I was hoping that he would return, and today this guy was walking around the waterfall, I'm sure trying to figure out how to get into the pond! So, I gave him some help. He seems very happy there!
This bee was feasting so took a pic, and also a pic of my murky water. These fish are at the surface, so you can see my dismay at the clarity of the water.

Maybe after I return the pea gravel and get things back in place, it will clear up ... in time.
JW, I wouldn't have really killed a snapper, but I sure would have been tempted had I found one in my pond. Yes, I will take it to my farm pond, and I know it can return, but there are probably 50 of them out there, so what's the use! Didn't go into the koi pond looking, could not see any further with my underwater mask on than from the surface. Awful!
But, thank goodness I found that hole, and Aris returned! The day was not a loss.

 

[CountryEscape]

Here's one more pic of Aris. Can you see him, along with the two frogs in this pic? Again, my zoom doesn't work, so I have to crop it to get it "closer", and then lose some of the clarity.

 

[pondlover]

CE I'm so glad you found the whole in your liner. Hoping that will work for you now that you've patched it. I hate even thinking about something like that. Your little turtle is a great pick me up. I bet it is Aris from last year. And hopefully your Koi pond can begin clearing up! Your lily blooms are great. I'm still waiting on mine. :razz:

 

[addy1]

good for you ce! you found it, that looks like a slice more than a chew spot.

 

[CountryEscape]

Yes, Addy, you're right, but it was not a tiny puncture, like I thought I was going to find. And, it was on the far side of the bog (from the outside edge) right at the bottom, but not ON the bottom, more on the wall bottom edge. That seems like a very strange place for a hole like this to occur. Also, I have carpeting under part of the bog, as I ran out of the underlayment, but this had the underlayment under it, which "guarantees" nothing will puncture it. So, shall I assume that while scooping out the pea gravel (I used a 3.5 gal bucket to scoop with, no shovel or anything stronger than a bucket or margarine container) there was a sharp rock that I stepped on against the bottom side/edge?
Also, does anyone have experience with repairing holes? What do you use? I asked and they told me to use bicycle tube patches and glue! I asked my brother, who owns a bike shop, and he thought it would work fine, that he can air up a tire immediately after he patches it, as the air acts as pressure to hold it in place, so he figured the water would do the same thing. I waited about an hour or little longer before adding water, though. That's the other reason I didn't put the pea gravel back in, I'm kind of assuming it will leak again. Hoping it won't, but better safe than sorry! Murphy's Law ... if I had put the pea gravel back in, it would leak, If not put back in, it will be good to go! I'll leave the pea gravel out for at least 2 or 3 days, to make sure the areas dries up and there are no more leaks.

 

[addy1]

Looks like a nice patch ce, good for you

 

[taherrmann4]

You could also put some of Addy's goop around it. Did you put the tire patch on both sides or just the one?