Temperature ups and downs causing fish illness? - need your help

[R.Rose]

Continuing from my yesterday's post. http://briansaquariumcare.com/quarantine.html This is his "book" on fish care, informative reading...web site not advertising for sales. I put this out so that the folks here can read his take on quarantine, Oh well I wanted to spare the typing. He says quarantining fish puts them under far more stress and its not good for the fish. Healthy fish immune systems can suppress pathogens and when excessively stressed they become ill. (like mine did from bad water) simply each step causes further stress:
1. Fish supplier -to store
2. Placed in display tanks with minimum comforts no place to retreat, they need to be viewed to be bought.
3. When sold they are bagged and stressed,
4. Placed into a quarantine tank that is most likely smaller then required for their size. The quarantine tank's water may not be conditioned sufficiently...more stress,,, they have to adjust to new food....more stress....4 weeks in a minimum size tank with frequent water changes ....stress....
5. Very stressed fish is placed in the pond....another environment to adjust to and further stress. The risk is that quarantining causes excessive stress and its immune system takes a hit. Once in the pond further stress of adjusting to it's 4th new home it becomes sick and possibly infect the other fish..
He believes that if the water is good quality and a newly purchased fish placed directly into the pond (tank) will be less stressed and will recover from any problem that it is struggling to suppress from store to pond. If your other fish are at optimum health they will not get ill. Stress is the cause of fish diseases. If my pond has good water quality the new fish will de-stress and regain its health. His it's not worth it is after weeks of quarantine and your new fish is proven healthy along comes a heron, duck or animal taking a drink or birdbath in the pond and they introduce a pathogen. The new fish suffered stresses of quarantine and proven OK then something else causes the fish ills.
I am not defending his writing, I guess what works for one doesn't mean it necessary works for everyone, - its how I added fish and the logic makes sense to me. Store to pond...never a problem. Now that I am a little more informed through this forum I have my have reservations.
Maybe under the following conditions it would be a waste for me to quarantine: My pond is fenced off to predators , small animals can visit the water, birds, squirrels. chipmunks, frog and toads. The frogs and toads move between my neighbor's pond next door and mine and they may bring something with them? The last 4 meters of my back yard doesn't dry out until August. It pools up with heavy rain. The people behind me do not pick up the waste of their 2 large dogs and it dissolves into the water which flows into my yard and the frogs/ toadshave been back there and return to my pond. ( there is an odor back there on humid days) Their 6 cats are free roaming - right into my yard and must walk through the wet ground to visit around the pond and patio. Shooed them off my cushioned chairs (they nap and sleep overnight) and my garden is their littler box. Maybe for me it is not worth it? These things are beyond my control and the city shrugs when I inquired about the animal issues.

I got to weigh my choices for addding fish.

 

[Dave 54]

Rose this guy is talking aquariums not ponds any fish in a QT situation is going to be stressed its common knowledge that they are its the same as us going into a hospital we get stressed out dont we. For one the new fish is in new water, differing from the water he/she was in before (its a fact of life) they come in from Japan are then put directly into a QT system spend two months settling in getting used to the water they are in..
If the fish is ill,diseased or injured its going to be stressed this is why we koi keepers add a companion fish, when we talk QTing fish outdoors we arent talking a tiny 10 gallon tank that doesnt fit the fish.
Most of us have larger units our own is between 500-550 gallons with its own filter UV-C airpump venturie and pump it even has its own bottom drain .
We have never had any of the problems you seem to be listing I suggest that you learn to read your fish Rose they will tell you if they are stressed or not
Stress is good in Quarentine because it will bring out that which is wrong with your fish.
Koi are deliberately stressed by a process callled heat ramping to try and bring on the Koi Herpes Virus which is uncurable kills 80% of your fish and the survivours have to be euthanated because they are carriers of KHV which is the Aids of the Koi world .
Goldfish suffer the Goldfish Herpes Virus which will kill 40% as its not as virulent.
There are various treatments like stresszyme stress coat that all go to help your fish whilst its in QT.
This is what I mean Rose bad information is on the net not so in books go out and buy the book I suggested you'll have more joy with that than with this guy half of what he's on about is known of course a fish is going to be stress we all know that .
To suggest you put a new fish directly in the pond OMG ok great do it if you wish just dont come crying to folk who have given you their years of experiance when your fish come down with something you then miss and they all die.
You came onto this site because all your fish "were" dying we stopped that for you did we not???
People have given you your answers told you your fishes problem how to treat them weve suggested books you can buy then you do this to everyone.

Dave

 

[R.Rose]

I have been a way for a while tending to things that were put on the back burner due to my pond issue.

The surviving fish are plumping out and thriving. They still have white flat smooth spots where the ick was. Could this be scar tissue or the last of the ick presence? Water temperature is running around 68 degrees. The Ick life cycle is slower in cooler water. My pond water chemistry is in normal limits with nitrite and ammonia at 0. We took our parrot for a yearlyl check up to his vet who specializes in Avians and exotics including fish. I asked him about treating koi and gold fish which he does and surgical procedures. He explained how he anesthetizes fish. He said guaranteeing is a must and for at lest 2 months. He tried to save someones foot long kois who added 4 small new ones with out guaranteeing. The new fish had a virus and killed all of this person's kois. The vet said a fish virus is running rampant this spring and there is always a big chance that new fish have something that can make the other fish sick. I told my husband that I need to vacuum the debris that is collecting on the bottom and replace with fresh water. Since the vet visit Al is taking fish care more seriously and is buying a drinking water safe hose for pond use which does not leach out chemicals or plastics as regular garden hoses do. (We should not drink from a garden hose) I bought a shop vac for pond cleaning only because I do not want to risk what might have been vacuumed into Al's and contaminate the pond if the water back flows from the vac canister.

Dave, I am waiting on the delivery of the fish book and a pond design planning and building book - I would like to enlarge it and give it a nicer outline in a year or two. I am monitoring water quality twice a week and watching for problems that I can catch when they start.

Appreciate all your responses to this thread. Rose