Temperature ups and downs causing fish illness? - need your help

[bettasngoldfish]

normal healthy gills should be bright red, not light in color (usually means bacterial infection)

from the photos it almost looks like I can see ick on at least one of your fish (I'm just glancing through as I am at work now)

I am in Willoughby Rose, where are you?

Luckily I didn't have any sick fish and everyone is eating and happy at this time (it was the first winter I left them out. I had been bringing them in and keeping them in a stock tank over the winter)

 

[bettasngoldfish]

Not familiar with the Tetra Pond Treatment but looked it up and the ingredients are: "Formaldehyde, quinine-hydrochloride" and It claims to: "Controls external parasites, bacteria, and fungi that can cause infection." I'm not so sure this is going to be enough to help your fish. It may be okay for early treatment but I think your past that point (I'm no expert, just my opinion)

If these were my fish I would be feeding a medicated food, treating them with a broad spectrum antiparasitic medication and doing more frequent water changes.

 

[bettasngoldfish]

And I forgot to say, I am very sorry.....Can't even imagine what you are going through.

I will keep my fingers crossed for you.

 

[R.Rose]

Thanks for the caring words. The fish are beautiful and when I posted these pictures it hit me....What have I done?. I checked on them later in the afternoon and they are more active Some were foraging for food and I tossed in a wee bit and they scrambled for it. Dottie my large shabunkin in the pictures also showed interest and ate. No more dead fish found yet. A few that were MIA came to the surface to eat. Before I checked this post Dottie looked less red and her gills were red. I am not holding my breath I kind of expecting Dottie, & some smaller ones to pass over night. The grey stuff is sloughing off of them but they look ragged. I saw Dottie's friend Freckles near the bottom moving around. Thunder also good size and 7 years old, he is a shubunkin black with red splotches( his coloring) came to the surface to eat.

I would like to put something else in the pond but not sure if it mixes well with current treatment. The treatment i used recommends repeating in 7 days with a water change. The label says do not mix treatments. The pond and fish specialist at the garden store told me it will work and add the salt. If they do not 100% get well repeat in 7 days. I was shopping on line at Drs. Fostr and Smith and there is Melafix and it's companion treatment to restore skin and fins and boost the nutrition. The other product is scary being so strong you need to add the counteragent and it says be prepared to drain pond if fish start jumping and flashing. I put the Tetra pond treatment in because it was available otherwise I would have to wait 3 days for the other ones to ship from the on line stores and that would be too late.

When I brought my first goldfishes in the house to winter in the tank by the third year they were large and fouled the water quite fast and got ill. I was trying to determine what was wrong and the fish med box had a chart to ID the problem. It said that the illness can evolve to look like something else and use caution in selecting treatment. All of your postings are appreciated and the illness Id.
These medications i can order and get by Tuesday to change from the Tetra pond.
13 results any suggestions to choose? I will buy medicated food.

PondCare Pond Salt
As low as $11.99

PondCare MelaFix & PimaFix for Pond Fish
As low as $8.99

Blackwater Medicated Food
As low as $9.99

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Medications are sometimes necessary to treat unexpected illnesses. Help ease the treatment of koi and other pond fish with our selection of effective medications. ... Read more


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Price isn't an option if it will save them.

Melafix has good reviews. Not sure what to use now.

Maria - I am in Strongsville and can walk to southpark Mall.
CallingColleen - Canada is a lovely country. Fished up near SudburyvOntario there as a kid with folks. Ranger Bay on the Upper and Lower Sturgeon Lakes. Stayed at the Hotel Bonjoursieur (good day) cabins. Went to Toronto for the Honeymoon!

The plant is a bogbean and is in a pot. I cut it back in spring it is a fast grower. My pond is shaded by a large tree. The angle of the picture makes it look overgrown. Will update tomorrow everyone thanks...Have a Good Weekend!

 

[CometKeith]

R.Rose. I'm very sorry about your sick and dying fish. I have never done a 100% clean out without having disastrous results. Once I put a new liner in during the summer and lost half my fish as a result. Also there was one in year in particular a few years back where it got very hot in March and then coId after that and my fish did poorly. I think the fish started producing too much ammonia and the pond did not cycle until a long time later and the ammonia hurt the fish. I have learned to never feed or do too much cleaning early in the year no matter how warm it is and how tempted I am to do something to the pond. I think the worse muckiest water is healthier than cleaning the liner and changing all the water. Just wondering was the water smelling bad when you changed it? If that is the case then you had a lot of anaerobic decay. Typically this will foster bad bacteria. By keeping my waterfall running all winter I have avoided anaerobic decay and my water is much fresher and healthier coming out of the winter. My guess is once you cleaned your pond, ammonia and maybe nitrites took over your pond and there was not enough beneficial bacteria to keep it in check. I did not see anywhere where you did tests on the water and am curious what they were. This year I did not rush to plug in my UV light and I feel that having more algae in the water helps reduce ammonia levels. It's really funny that every year just when my pond cycles all my string algae disappears so the algae definitely utilizes ammonia and helps reduce it. I agree with Colleen about the importance of O2 but feel that oxygen deprivation typically results in sudden kills of fish and not necessary the type of disease your fish have. My opinion is the best cure for sick fish is to improve the water quality and this is better than all the medicine you can buy in the store.

 

[bettasngoldfish]

Rose, Any idea how many fish are still alive? Do you have a quarantine stock tank or somewhere you can put them to monitor and medicate them? It's a lot easier and cheaper to do water changes on a smaller amount of water.

Honestly I have always done 50-75% water changes on all my fish tanks and even my pond and I have yet to make a fish sick or kill it that way. Maybe I have just been lucky or maybe the water I have is allowing me to do that without hurting my fish? I dunno? I'm not trying to disagree with anyone I'm just saying what works for me and what I do (and have been doing for many years in my fish tanks but only in the last few years with the pond)

I agree completely with water changes being the number one and best thing to do however I feel these fish are in need of medicating.

Do any of them seem interested in food at all? If you decide that's the way to go this is where I get my medicated food: http://www.goldfishconnection.com/shop/details.php?productId=8&catId=5 Quick service and good products.

 

[R.Rose]

Make this quick....I have more dead showing up. Freckles died. He haas red streaks on body and tail. same other fish too. Called a specialist and he said that I should have drained thew pound al l the way because the fish stirred up resting toxin&parasites. Spawning alsobrought it up. He said that what I did so far to treat is good. The Tetra poond medication he recommended. I gave details of events and he said to clean the entire pond out. Fill kiddie swim pools with the pond water and add additonal medication to it. I asked him about the Melafix and its companion treatment he said one takes care of parasites and bacteria and the other fungus. So I am off to buy the stuff and bring him pics of the fill fish. I am going to miss Freckles (sob) He said that I have 2 problems going on and they are feeding off each other baccterial then fungus on the fish this internal bacterial said it was gram positive. Also part due to the ups and down of termp change. He said my readings were Ok as posted above and the same today. sorry for spelling need to shower and get going. Need hubby to help clen pond will do that tomorrow but another partial change is recommended for today. Rose

 

[R.Rose]

back from store with salt for the complete refill and the melafix & melafin. They were eating yesterday and seemed like most would be fine. I think I have about 16 left. Some are not improving. I put up kids wading ppol and will fill with the pond water and add the mela stuff. I will be draining it and catching fish as it drains. I will get them into the kid pool with the new treatments and tomorrow suction off muck and clean sides. The pond liner slipped down in the back side and I have to pull it up. am covering the kid pool with netting and my fencing to keep cirtters out. I will net frogs and put them in a rubbermade tub with net over it
The expert at the store looked at these pics that i posted and siad a few illness are present. Ick and fungus on the black comets and proably due to the inital bacterial infection gram positive. He said the toxins got stirred up when the fish mate and when I disturbed the muck by lifting out that huge bog bean plant. US dept of food has banned medicated fish food for fear people who raisee their fish for food will feed it to them. the store doesn't sell any medicated food.

 

[dieselplower]

That is not true. It is easy to get medicated fish food. They just dont sell it there and wanted to make a buck so they sold you what they had.

 

[dieselplower]

Here are 1.2 million results for medicated fish food....

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=medicated+fish+food

 

[bettasngoldfish]

Rose, I'm glad you are getting help with your fish.

I did post a link to goldfish connection and they DO sell medicated fish food, I know this because I buy it from them. I usually receive my orders within 2-3 days from them.

I'm not so sure it's necessary for you to use pond water in the quarantine tank (I wouldn't) but that is up to you.

Please keep us posted

 

[Tula]

Rose,
I'm sorry for your losses and the stress you are experiencing. Thank you for the pictures....they really do tell the story. These poor fish are quite sick and it does appear both bacterial ( red / pink streaks and light pink gills) and fungal ( the "skin" sloughing off).

I'm fortunate in that I have a near by fish hatchery, for good support and information. I personally would NOT use MinnFinn - very controversial and a strong product....you can read up on it, but it is basically an acid. I don't have a microscope, but they are helpful to scape and scope to see exactly what you're dealing with. Without specific knowledge, a shot gun approach is probably best.

I don't think you need to put your pond water in the kiddie pool, in fact it probably isn't a good idea....you want very clean, declorinated wage, and don't want to transfer parasites or bacteria from the pond to the qt tank.

Please keep us posted.

 

[callingcolleen1]

sometimes the medication makes the water quality really poor, cause it kills all the good bacteria. Make sure you do a part water change water after fish are all better. Then add some fresh good bacteria. Yes low oxygen does kill fish like overnight, but I still think you need to have a spitter cooling the water more, expecially if you have a lot of hot days. The warmer the water the more problems fish tend to have.
I cannot help with choosing the medication cause I have never had to use any, except once twenty some years back, and if I remember correct, it was a really hot summer that year and my pond water volume was much smaller back then, and it was a fairly new pond then too. Smaller pools of water can heat up much quicker too. I am now thankfull we have not had too much extreme heat the last few years.

 

[callingcolleen1]

very sorry to read your fish still no well. Good to know somebody is helping you there. It is true that some plants harbor parisites, and moving the bog bean may have contributed to the parisites. I would probally clean and rinse out everything good and not move the containated water to kiddy pool.

 

[R.Rose]

Hi, The situation is real bad. I have lost 18 fish. I put the sick ones that I netted into the kiddie pool with treatment and within 10 minutes they were dead. Some fish showed improvement swimming and eating and the next day belly up. I give up. The original treatment can be re dosed Tuesday directions state do a water change. I will be getting the ballast Monday for the Uv light. Tuesday I am draining the pond, catching the fish and putting them in the kiddie pool with the pond water no treatment added.. The liner will be scrubbed clean and checked for problems. The 2 plants will be rinsed and re-potted with clean purchased soil. They will sit in lightly treated water. All rocks and stones will be power washed. Pond will be refilled using dechlorinator and heavy metal neutralizers, a few hours later Pond fish pond treatment added with salt. Filter and uv light (hopefully working) running. Wednesday I place the fish in if any are left.
I hope this doesn't scare anyone new to ponds. I have had success with fish and my pond for 30 years. This was a very bad misfortune due to a slow spring start up delaying my pond cleaning. My error the only one that I know for sure was not searching for the fish when they were hiding. If I would have seen them I may have detected the start of illnesses and acted sooner. If these remaining fish die either they were ill and not showing it and or the clean water shocked them. I appreciate all your help based on your experiences and your kind words of support.

MY 1800 gph pump is set up currently with water gushing out of its hose hitting the surface of the water and will be my "spitter" when the pond is refilled. This pump, my pond bubbler and a 2nd 1800 gph pump will be split to service the pressure filter and a gushing spitter on the other side of the pond. I hope that is sufficient aeration? Oh I will flush the hoses and scrub the pumps clean. Have a good workweek. Will do one last status post after pond is cleaned and post picture. I am sure most of you are getting kind of tired of this.