Simple improvement to the Skippy...

[capewind]

i line the inside of the tank with the blue furnace filter from the bottom grid up.

Koiguy, do you mean lay it as sheets ON the bottom grid AND around the inside side walls?

 

[JohnHuff]

i line the inside of the tank with the blue furnace filter from the bottom grid up.

You appear to have thought of everything!!! That's one thing I would have never thought of, but you're right, that will prevent water from channeling between the pads and the sides, except the water might flow up between the sides of the tank and the upright sides of the blue furnace filters!!!

 

[koiguy1969]

You appear to have thought of everything!!! That's one thing I would have never thought of, but you're right, that will prevent water from channeling between the pads and the sides, except the water might flow up between the sides of the tank and the upright sides of the blue furnace filters!!!

the blue filter mats are held up against the wall pretty snuggly. i use a top grid. 1/2 of wich is held down by the horizontal pipe leading to the down pipe; and the other 1/2 is weighed down with a couple smooth round flat stones.

Koiguy, do you mean lay it as sheets ON the bottom grid AND around the inside side walls?

i have 2 layers on top of the grid and some around the walls... then the scrubbies fill the rest... may not be perfect, but has served me well, and mine is not one of those ponds that doesnt need a filter...with my fishloads and feeding amount...no-way!


like ive said before.. i move my media between filters. every fall it goes inside..every spring back outside. i can very easily and cheaply convert to moving bed "bead" filters, but moving the media would be a major PITA. and i dont wish to basically start new filters twice a year. i like bringing in my media and always having an active bacterial colony. my fish barely miss a meal, even the day of the move, theyre fed shortly after the move.

 

[capewind]

the blue filter mats are held up against the wall pretty snuggly. i use a top grid. 1/2 of wich is held down by the horizontal pipe leading to the down pipe; and the other 1/2 is weighed down with a couple smooth round flat stones.

i have 2 layers on top of the grid and some around the walls... then the scrubbies fill the rest... may not be perfect, but has served me well, and mine is not one of those ponds that doesnt need a filter...with my fishloads and feeding amount...no-way!

I am visualizing with a sheet laying on the bottom grate that none of the suspended particles are making it up into your scrubbies?

I finally got to see what a skippy looks like dirty yesterday ... not our pond but a clients ... went over to retrieve some baby fish to rehome ... more than 50 were living in the 100 gallon skippy ... the top of the water in the skippy was crystal clear (as is the 2000 gallon pond) but as soon as you started moving the cut up media, it was NASTY ... Ended up having to take the skippy apart to get all the babies out ... there was a good inch of sludge on the bottom ... I cant imagine the concept of the original skippy's not to have a drain valve ...

 

[Jordan74]

I have 2 sheets of green matala then my dollar store scrubbies. Thanks for all the info. I have been having some algae problems but this my pond's first summer.

 

[pecan]

As far as oxygen I used the below plumbing attachment for three reasons. One it gives me a spot to add beneficial bacteria in the spring that takes the bacteria straight to the bottom and up through the media. Two, with the opening it adds oxygen to the bottom of the skippy (you can see the air bubbles) and three with the opening it prevents any siphoning action of gunk from the skippy going back into the pond if there is ever a malfunction. A bonus is I can easily remove the pump hoses and drain part of the pond for water changes.

 

[JohnHuff]

As far as oxygen I used the below plumbing attachment for three reasons. One it gives me a spot to add beneficial bacteria in the spring that takes the bacteria straight to the bottom and up through the media. Two, with the opening it adds oxygen to the bottom of the skippy (you can see the air bubbles) and three with the opening it prevents any siphoning action of gunk from the skippy going back into the pond if there is ever a malfunction. A bonus is I can easily remove the pump hoses and drain part of the pond for water changes.

That's a nice looking Skippy!

 

[Dave 54]

John, I am still learning more about how filters work, to be the best they can be, so you have my attention...

Just want to throw out some observations to you from our filters ...

On the main pond, we have a traditional filter (plus bog and other things) ... It's a Laguna Filter Falls 5000 ... One chamber had bioballs ... I have to say they were a pain in the arse to clean (small plant roots tangle in them). We removed them and replaced that chamber with pillow stuffing (same principle as quilt batting) ...

We have two "modified" Skippies ... I say modified as they are not identicle to what you find on the skippy site, but other members here do have similar .. the primary difference is the drain to be able to drain the muck out of it ...

When hubby did the mini one in the basement, I didnt pay much attention to it, as it is in the basement (out of sight, out of mind), but the one outside, I see every day. It isnt 100% finished, but operational (grates are not in it) ... I noticed with no cover, and in full sun, the pads we cut up do gunk up with algae, plus whatever it pulls from the baby pond, but it is EASY to clean ... It has the bottom drain valve, so you crack it open, and all the muck from the bottom flows out ... as it is flowing, if you splash the pads about a bit (maybe a whole minute) all the gunk falls out, and goes out the drain too ...

In reality capewind bio balls like K1 K3 are made for a bio filter meaning they churn about producing helpful bacteria for the pond the bacteria forms in and on all the sufaces and as thy churn around the old bacteria is soughed off allowing for the creation of new bacteria in other words they are like little factories constantly renewing their bacteria we use 6 pond airstones supplied by a Airtec 49e.
It does our pond proud and we have no problems at all with it apart from high nitrate caused by our tap water in April.
I'm wondering if you could make a skippy filter to operate in this manner ?
John your the man with the plan do you think you could design one for people then stick it in line with other skippy filters doing differing jobs?


rgrds

Dave

 

[JohnHuff]

Hi:
Just replace the pads with the K2 and add an airpump. It will be much better than pads. According to the moving media reactors' websites, the advantages are: 1) no loss of head, 2) no clogging, 3) no need for flushing, 4) smaller footprint, 5) high efficiency of conversion. They also say it gets rid of nitrates but there's no explanation of how that's achieved. Everyone should replace their pads with K2.

I'm wondering if you could make a skippy filter to operate in this manner ?
John your the man with the plan do you think you could design one for people then stick it in line with other skippy filters doing differing jobs?


rgrds

Dave

 

[koiguy1969]

if all you do is swap media...the head stays the same.. without just building another filter, the filter's foot print stays the same... without adding an adequate prefilter, and replumbing, gunk will still gather on the bottom, so to remove it from the system you'll still need to flush... 6 years, i still havent put any real effort in cleaning the media, and mine still hasnt clogged. and performs to my satisfaction. the conversion rate may be higher, but, it just doesnt warrant the added expence for me. plus, adding the expense of an air pump and the electricity to run it....

 

[JohnHuff]

Where to start?
Absolute footprint stays the same but because of better conversion, relative footprint is smaller.
No clogging because moving media doesn't trap solids like pads do. It's great that your pads don't trap solids because mine sure did. A pad is basically a filter, made to trap solids. If it isn't trapping solids, then water is going around them. The problem with having prefilters that catch solids is that if the prefilters fail just once, solids will get trapped in the pads and they will have to be cleaned. I had to clean them once a week even with prefilters when the pond is active before replacing them with bioballs.
Why don't waste water management companies use pads?
The advantages of moving media over pads is just so obvious to me in so many ways that it boggles my mind that I'm even debating about them. You might have perfect prefilters, but how many others would? 6 years, no clogging and never cleaned. How many people in the world do you think can achieve that? I think yours is the perfect example but it's like showcasing the guy who wins the lotto as the norm. A moving bed filter is just so much better and easier.

if all you do is swap media...the head stays the same...& the filter's foot print stays the same... without adding an adequate prefilter, and replumbing, gunk will still gather on the bottom, so to remove it from the system you'll still need to flush... 6 years, i still havent cleaned the media, and mine still hasnt clogged. and performs to my satisfaction. the conversion rate may be higher, but it just doesnt warrant the added expence for me.plus your adding the expense of an air pump and the electricity to run it....

 

[koiguy1969]

every body's situation is different, but for my personal situation.. with a stock tank, waterfall weir and plumbing setup. not to mention, not needing to improve my filtration. plus not everybody moves their fish like i do. and with them i move my filter media between filters. so i would have to convert 2 filters.
**the whole idea of the swirl bars is to gather and settle the solids... so whats above them doesnt really matter as far as what settles on the bottom. my prefilter is a 10 gallon old tetrapond filter i conveted. i clean it every 2 weeks or so.it has 2 pads, a peice of window screen and 2 layers of felt, all cut to fit snug in the container. stacked on a bottom grid like in my skippy style filter. the water is drawn in from the top thru the pads, out the bottom, thru the pump, and to the skippy. so the water reaching my bio filter is already pretty clean as far as solids.as far as the flushing, its an easy small water change as you replace the water used, or let your pump run as long as you like for a larger one.
** i will say if i was using a 55 gallon drum, the conversion would make more sense. but i would power it by a venturi, not an air pump. and replumb the inside of filter like this....

 

[capewind]

I seem to be getting more and more confused trying to follow this conversation (what else is new LOL) ...

John, you titled this thread as "simple improvement to the skippy" and I am trying to understand (not argue) the points you are trying to make, but I just am not getting it here ...

When I try to ask my hubby to explain your point, he simply tells me that all he expects of a skippy is to act as a solids seperator ... Seeing the clients come apart (to catch baby fish), with the water above the media being crystal, and the water under the media being muddy, sludge and gross, and the pond crystal clear to the bottom, I would say it is doing that ... The topic wasnt a NEW filter, but ways to improve upon the skippy ... adding a drain does that in my mind (easy way to remove the crap on the bottom) ... BUT. people add plants to the tops of skippy's, so isnt that an improvement? Sort of a veggie filter? SO if you are in favor of bio-balls, cant you just add those to the top too if you wanted to???

Even if the standard scrubbies could clog (I am not seeing that yet with what hubby uses), are we really that concerned with them being a home for bacterias, if everyplace in the pond is a place that bacteria can grow? Maybe if there is too much of a load on the pond, maybe this would be a concern???

Just thinking out loud here LOL ....

 

[koiguy1969]

i should add.. everything i said was from past experience, only putting 865gph thru the filter. and i never said my setup is perfect, just ideal for me!
i will no doubt have to clean my media this year when i move it to the basement filter. since i am just running the 2150 gph thru the filter this year, and not running the 865gph pump to save electrical costs. usually i would run the 865 gph thru the skippy. and plumb the other 2150gph pump right into the top so the water would flow out the waterfall.(making it 3000gph roughly) it was venturied for aeration and prefiltered.so it provided circulation, aeration, and mechanical filtration. so this year i am running almost 3 times the flow thru the filter. but, in a stock tank, there is a larger horizontal flow & settling area and far less debris stay in suspension, making it up into the media. a 55 gal drum, being perfectly round and a much smaller diameter, with the same pump, creates far more swirl and agitation and keeps things in suspension longer. greatly increasing the amount of matter reaching the media. now my basement pond filter is a 55 gal barrel. but i draw the water thru a skimmer with polyfill, and an eggcrate foam.. water hits the filter very well cleaned. i net the fish wastes from the bottom. the pumps are set to return the water like TPRs creating a whirlpool effect and the poo is usually in a pile. i net 3 times a day when i feed. theres no plants, no algae, nothing but the fish's waste to mechanically clean. my fish only spend 4 - 5 months a year outdoors. so this is a help also because i just dont have my outdoor filter running 9 months a year to build up all the crap that most do. soon i will move the media drain the filter and cover till next May or June.
that said... yes i agree that bio balls would stay cleaner and rinse easier with a flush.keeping them more efficient. and a moving bed is even better biologically.i just dont need the added expenses, when mine does the job.

 

[Dave 54]

if all you do is swap media...the head stays the same.. without just building another filter, the filter's foot print stays the same... without adding an adequate prefilter, and replumbing, gunk will still gather on the bottom, so to remove it from the system you'll still need to flush... 6 years, i still havent put any real effort in cleaning the media, and mine still hasnt clogged. and performs to my satisfaction. the conversion rate may be higher, but, it just doesnt warrant the added expence for me. plus, adding the expense of an air pump and the electricity to run it....

Mark they arent that expensive to run our electric bill is no more than when we were indoors infact it works out less oviously a little more in winter, a veterans pension doesnt go all that far and if we couldnt afford it we woulnt be keeping .

rgrds

Dave