Simple improvement to the Skippy...

[JohnHuff]

1) There are charts on the internet showing the difference in surface area of different types of media and some showing how to calculate the area of media needed, sorry I don't have those websites on the top of my head. I haven't attempted to quantify mine because the advantage of floating media is so obvious over static media.
2) Increased flow is supposed to help the nitrifying reactions, up to a certain point.

Your last comment... it does appear that floating media is more expensive than pads. In the filters that I built last year I used 3 types, bioballs, K2 and cut up straws. I'm not sure how much cut up straws cost me since I have a habit of collecting them, but I think they might be quite inexpensive without a very big loss in efficiency. I can suggest going that route as well.

Thanks John, that did help, but now I am scratching my head with more questions ...

1. In evaluating usable surface area, first, how do you define HOW MUCH media you need? I realize that is a loaded question and could depend on many variables, but for sake of arguement use the terms of an average fish load, and only address it from the size of the filter... In our case, using a 150 gallon stock tank ...

2. My next question regards flow rate ... I vaguely recall others talking about particle suspension time and flow rates, and the skippy is upflow ... but what if you add additional agitation to the skippy tank .. whether it be in the form of a venturi, added air pump, or top discharge water ... I may not be explaining this well ... I wanted more flow coming out of the waterfall, so hubby has a valve box ... it is set so that about 1000 gph is fed through the upflow, and the balance is plumbed to enter the skipping from the backside (opposite the water fall) at the top ... this pump will be swapped out to a 4000 gph (needs a new impeller), where 1000 gph will go through the upflow, and the 3000 gph across the top to give me more flow at the waterfall ... It also has a venturi ... Does the added flow help anything at all, besides giving me more volume at the falls?

Where I am heading with these questions is financial .. if the course media is substancially less expensive, is figuring out how much is needed, to get the same end result ... I also remember others talking about other items that would be dynamic in nature, such as cut pex tubing (hubby has done this), pvc and even hair curlers ...

 

[JohnHuff]

A question if I may...
Do your scrubbies completely fill the filter? Because water flows through the path of least resistance and flowing around the scubbies is less resistant than flowing through them, so unless the scrubbies completely fill the filter, water will naturally flow around them.

SPONGES?...i never heard of anyone using sponges. i've been using my "scrubbies" for 6 years. still havent had an issue with clogging. of course, as should be done, with any filtration system.i use prefilters.. a mechanical filter before my pump. my pump sets right under my falls. and draws thru my prefilter,plumbed with 1&1/4" hose at the other end of pond.(3 pads, a layer of screen, and 2 layers of felt) my water is pretty darn clean, mechanically before it hits my "skippy style" bio filter. i have yet to put any real effort into cleaning the pads. and they are used 24/7/365 between my outdoor pond and basement wintering pond. my basent pond is drawn thru a skimmer prefilter thats drawn thru a pad, pillow stuffing then egg crate foam... the water is crystal clear and virtually particle free entering the "skippy style". i also haveflush valves. and yes i use venturies.
but even with the venturies, or an aerator, ...almost all of the oxygenation takes place at the waters surface. as the bubble break the surface tension.

 

[koiguy1969]

of course the filter is filled...why use a 70 gal tank and not use all of it? thats also one reason why i make weirs, so more of the tank can be utilized.
i also dont use media bags... they cause channeling.

 

[capewind]

1) There are charts on the internet showing the difference in surface area of different types of media and some showing how to calculate the area of media needed, sorry I don't have those websites on the top of my head. I haven't attempted to quantify mine because the advantage of floating media is so obvious over static media.
2) Increased flow is supposed to help the nitrifying reactions, up to a certain point.

Your last comment... it does appear that floating media is more expensive than pads. In the filters that I built last year I used 3 types, bioballs, K2 and cut up straws. I'm not sure how much cut up straws cost me since I have a habit of collecting them, but I think they might be quite inexpensive without a very big loss in efficiency. I can suggest going that route as well.

1) There are charts on the internet showing the difference in surface area of different types of media and some showing how to calculate the area of media needed, sorry I don't have those websites on the top of my head. I haven't attempted to quantify mine because the advantage of floating media is so obvious over static media.
2) Increased flow is supposed to help the nitrifying reactions, up to a certain point.

Your last comment... it does appear that floating media is more expensive than pads. In the filters that I built last year I used 3 types, bioballs, K2 and cut up straws. I'm not sure how much cut up straws cost me since I have a habit of collecting them, but I think they might be quite inexpensive without a very big loss in efficiency. I can suggest going that route as well.

Interesting concepts to keep in mind. Once hubby gets more of the skippy done, will add the cut up pex, pvc and bioballs we have that are not being used ... On this skippy, we stuck with the shower drains for the discharge, due to the way I wanted the water to flow over the rocks (I didnt want a sheet of water) and the drain covers were slowing the flow too much, so hubby took them off .. I dont think we want to be retrieving bioballs and 1/2" pex out of the lily/baby pond LOL. Truthfully, the concept of bioballs, if hubby thinks we should go that route, would be on the next skippy ... Putting a second one on the baby/lily pond for looks, I want another waterfall on it ... That is likely on next years' list. I only budget about $5000 a summer for the backyard, and we spent that and more this year, so the yard is cut off til next year. Still need a lot of wall blocks and pavers.

 

[koiguy1969]

actually..i have a 5 gal bucket full of poly beads, and can get more, really cheap.so i could convert my filter to a moving bed (bead) filter. but as my dad always said..."if it aint broke, don't fix it" ! i maintain clear, clean water with consistantly good readings...and i keep 100+ fish in my 1200 gal pond. 5,20" and 100 - 200, 1&1/2" to 3" fry from the years spawns. and i feed atleast 1/2 cup per day. between pellets and brine shrimp flakes.
i'm cheap, and broke on top of it..plus a bit lazy. so cheap, and easy to maintain are important.
not to mention my media goes between my indoor and outdoor filters when the fish are moved...moving 50 gals of beads would be a pain in the @$$. theyre pretty heavy even tho they have a nuetral to positive buoyancy. a 5 gal bucket weighs probably about 40 lbs.

capewind... i might have $2500 total investment in my pond and equipment since the first day ...$5000 /year...wow must be nice!

this is the way you can get it cheap..

 

[capewind]

capewind... i might have $2500 total investment in my pond and equipment since the first day ...$5000 /year...wow must be nice!

Oh gawd no, that isnt all in the ponds ... it's the backyard ... When hubby designed what he wanted for the backyard when we built the house, labor is free, we were looking at $18,000 for materials ... $2800 of this years budget was just delivered a couple weeks ago ... that was 2 pallets of pavers, 2 pallets of wall block, 1 pallet of cap block, 5 gallons efflorescence cleaner, and 5 gallons of sealer ... a couple hundred more went out for stone dust, gravel and polysand ... Still NEED: another 6-7 pallets of pavers, EITHER 4 or 6 pallets of wall blocks (I cant remember if we needed 6 or 8 pallets and just got 2) ... and one more pallet of cap block ...

I dont think we have that much into the ponds in perspective ... The newest pond is 4500 gallons, 40 watt uv, and skippy ... maybe $1500 including the rocks we still need to pick up? The upper pond, I dont know ... maybe $3000??? calling it high, but that was a 25x30 and a 20x30 liner and hubby had to replace the big pump, which was pricey...

 

[JohnHuff]

actually..i have a 5 gal bucket full of poly beads, and can get more, really cheap.so i could convert my filter to a moving bed (bead) filter. but as my dad always said..."if it aint broke, don't fix it" ! i maintain clear, clean water with consistantly good readings...and i keep 100+ fish in my 1200 gal pond. 5,20" and 100 - 200, 1&1/2" to 3" fry from the years spawns. and i feed atleast 1/2 cup per day. between pellets and brine shrimp flakes.
i'm cheap, and broke on top of it..plus a bit lazy. so cheap, and easy to maintain are important.
not to mention my media goes between my indoor and outdoor filters when the fish are moved...moving 50 gals of beads would be a pain in the @$$. theyre pretty heavy even tho they have a nuetral to positive buoyancy. a 5 gal bucket weighs probably about 40 lbs.

capewind... i might have $2500 total investment in my pond and equipment since the first day ...$5000 /year...wow must be nice!

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this is the way you can get it cheap..

Hi: Can I ask where to get these poly beads?

 

[koiguy1969]

from a freind's place of employment...same place i get the 1/2" for the weirs.

 

[sissy]

The pump I have in there is a sump pump can't remember the gph .When I built the new tank I never really thought to look at it and just moved everything as fast as i could so non of the good stuff would die .

 

[HARO]

from a freind's place of employment...same place i get the 1/2" for the weirs.

One question, Mark.... I realize you aren't using this medium, but am I right to assume that it floats? How does one keep them from floating right out the top of the filter? It seems the particles are small enough to get through or around almost anything.
John

 

[JohnHuff]

I've been doing some more reading tonight and I've found links where moving bed reactors are basically the same thing as I described. They're containers of moving media with extra aeration. Cites use these to clean their water. If you compare these reactors with static media it should be obvious that moving media is so much better than static media that people should stop using static media in their filters right away... yet even today I find a new filter being built with static media... Argh. This madness must stop!!!

http://www.lenntech.com/processes/mbbr.htm
http://www.headworksinternational.com/biological-wastewater-treatment/MBBR.aspx
http://www.indiamart.com/shivamwatertreaters/sewage-treatement-plant.html#moving-bed-bio-reactor

 

[Jordan74]

of course the filter is filled...why use a 70 gal tank and not use all of it? thats also one reason why i make weirs, so more of the tank can be utilized.
i also dont use media bags... they cause channeling

[SIZE=11.818181991577148px]I seem to have some channeling on the edges. How do you prevent minor channeling around the edges?[/SIZE]

 

[JohnHuff]

[SIZE=11.818181991577148px]I seem to have some channeling on the edges. How do you prevent minor channeling around the edges?[/SIZE]

I don't think it's possible to stop channeling around the edges because it's impossible to have a tight bond between the pads and the side of the container. Water will always seek the path of least resistance.

 

[capewind]

[SIZE=11.818181991577148px]I seem to have some channeling on the edges. How do you prevent minor channeling around the edges?[/SIZE]

There could be a few answers here ... some blow by IS going to happen but ...

How much media do you have in there, and what type?

How dirty are they?

How much upflow (gph) do you have?

I know we have some, as the statement of water takes the path of least resistence is true but ours is not visibly noticable ...

 

[koiguy1969]

i line the inside of the tank with the blue furnace filter from the bottom grid up.