Relined due to leak & now ammonia is spiking & fish look affected by it

[Mattie]

Interesting to know, Lisa. The world of koi is completely new to me. All the conflicting opinions (about everything, not just plants) can be quite confusing. That helps clarify a little.

 

[MitchM]

Looking good, Mattie.
There's no need to post the numbers again until you see a change in the PH, ammonia or nitrite.
Keep testing daily, though.

 

[Mattie]

I will keep testing and will only report changes. Thx. Just to reconfirm, once bound by ammonia binder, does the ammonia stay bound or do I need to rebind it at some point. My most affected fish is sitting at the bottom fins clamped. This is new. But I haven't had them long enough to know if they do this sometimes normally. Just ordered the Seachem multi-test Ammonia kit because it can tell the difference between bound and unbound ammonia supposedly, but I won't have it until Wed.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I will keep testing and will only report changes. Thx. Just to reconfirm, once bound by ammonia binder, does the ammonia stay bound or do I need to rebind it at some point. My most affected fish is sitting at the bottom fins clamped. This is new. But I haven't had them long enough to know if they do this sometimes normally. Just ordered the Seachem multi-test Ammonia kit because it can tell the difference between bound and unbound ammonia supposedly, but I won't have it until Wed.

Typically the Ammonia is bound for only 24 hours. I would not add any more Prime allowing the Ammonia oxidizing bacteria to do its work. If your problem was only the Ammonia level, all fish would be affected fairly equally. In your case, the induced stress is multi-source not just Ammonia so each fish is showing different levels of stress. It will take time for the fish to adapt/adjust to all of the changes that they have been subjected to. Here patience is really a virtue.

 

[Mattie]

My male just tried several times to jump out of the pond (there's a net over it so he can't). It's sunny and warm. Water is 62 degrees. Ammonia just tested at 1.0. That's .5 higher than last night and this morning. All other levels are the same. Still hold tight?

 

[Tula]

I use some floating nets to hold my water plants. The koi nibble on the roots that grow through the nets, but some of the roots and the plants, remain untouched.

Posted at the same time, you posted so didn't see your remark about the koi trying to jump.

I don't take that as good news, but will allow @MitchM and @Meyer Jordan to advise, as they've been doing. I'm following with interest and wish you best of luck.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

My male just tried several times to jump out of the pond (there's a net over it so he can't). It's sunny and warm. Water is 62 degrees. Ammonia just tested at 1.0. That's .5 higher than last night and this morning. All other levels are the same. Still hold tight?

Yes, unless the Ammonia level continues to climb.
What behavior are the other fish exhibiting?

 

[Mattie]

Louise (female #1), the one having the hardest time, is still flashing here and there. She's the one who was sitting on the bottom for a long time. Rhonda (female #2) is a little sluggish and occasionally violently wiggles but isn't full-on flashing right now. Max (the male) is flashing occasionally but hasn't jumped again. In between all this they are very aggressively going after the hyacinth roots. Could it be that they are eating so much hyacinth that they are creating more waste and thus causing ammonia to go up? Should I take out the hyacinth? And how long is it OK not to feed koi when the water is at these temps? 58-62 with more warmth to come?

 

[Meyer Jordan]

It is a good sign that they are feeding. They are eating the micro-organisms that have colonized the Hyacinth roots, destroying the root structure in the process. They will likely eventually destroy the Hyacinths and you will need to remove whatever is left.
Their feeding on the Hyacinths explains why the Ammonia level returned to 1.0 after dropping to 0.5. Fish always excrete more Ammonia after feeding. Fish can go for extended periods without feeding. We will not let your fish starve to death! But we do want minimize the creation of any additional Ammonia at this time...until we know that the spike has passed.

 

[Mattie]

Sorry. Just want to be sure I understand. Should I remove the hyacinth now or wait until they destroy them and just remove what remains?

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Sorry. Just want to be sure I understand. Should I remove the hyacinth now or wait until they destroy them and just remove what remains?

You can remove them now, but I would let the fish eat what they will and remove what is left.
That may sound contradictory, but based on the Ammonia level that you are reporting, the free/un-ionized Ammonia is not at a level high enough to cause real toxicity issues.

 

[Mattie]

Ok. I'll leave them in for now. Thx.

 

[Mattie]

So here's today's dilemma: If my ammonia is technically in a safe zone (though still way too high) due to the mix of Ph (7.8 and temps ranging from 58-64 depending on weather) but my fish are showing serious ammonia toxicity symptoms like flashing, sitting on the bottom, leaping out of the water, etc., then is it just ammonia or just the overall change in water parameters? I spoke to a pond person today who suggested that ammonia alone doesn't explain this. She suggested I treat them for parasites. I'm not set up to do a scrape though (and the stress would likely put them over the edge) and blindly medicated will mess up the cycling. So I called a local vet she recommended who seemed knowledgable. He said it's the ammonia and to change the water, a lot of it, immediately. He said it wouldn't set back the cycling because bacteria stick to the pond walls and rocks and filters etc. so a water change would be ok. Pond person said the same. So I retested by tap water before starting. Last time I checked I got 7.8 ph and .5 ammonia on my tap water. Today I got. 8.8 ph (or higher) and the .5 ammo. That seems like it would make things worse. So I checked my rain barrels. That has Ph off the charts (8.8 or higher) and 0 ammonia. Currently my pond is 7.6 ph and .5 ammonia. I think either of these would make things worse, so I'm holding off. I also took out the hyacinth because the fish continue to flash etc. and the ammonia went back up to 1.0 before falling again presumably due to the waste released after they were eating them. I also did a 5% water change this morning and very very gently rinsed the filter pads in pond water. I called Seachem to ask them to clarify a few things about Pond Prime. They said the ammonia does unbind about every 48 hours so you have to reapply. They also said the bound ammonia can be used for the nitrogen cycle in it's bound form. I think my fish's dorsal and tail fins look a little pink today (maybe they always were but I don't think so), which is a sign of ammonia poisoning. So now I'm going off to purchase zeolite rocks to try to remove some of the ammonia and will continue to add Prime every 40 hours or so. I can't bear watching my fish suffer. Is there anything else I can do? Salt in case it's parasites? Should I buy a PH reducer and then try to use my rain barrel water or is rain barrel water collected off a 1 year old roof likely to be full of nasty chemicals?

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Zeolite will adsorb Ammonia and keep it bound. It should help to ease your mind.
Do not, do not, attempt to alter the pH. At 7.6 you are very close to ideal pH for Koi which is 7.4. Any manipulation of the pH level will only cause greater stress in the fish, beside being absolutely unnecessary.
Pink fins are a sign of stress in fish. Stress that can originate from various sources, not just Ammonia.
This chart show the safe levels of Total Ammonia at various pH and temperature levels. As can be readily seen, you readings of 0.50 is well within the safe limits.

and here

I could post more but they all relate the same information. At 0.50 or even 1.0 TAN, which is what you are testing, the is no, or at most, minimal toxicity to fish.
Parasites are a possibility, but salting a pond before it has completely cycled is counter-productive.
Have you tested for Nitrite today?

 

[MitchM]

The protective slime coat on your fish can be compared to our own skin. With the initial disruption to your fish's environment, plus any handling to remove and replace the fish back into the pond, their slime coat has become damaged and the fish will become irritated as a result.
Think of it as similar to us getting a sunburn and then stepping into an otherwise harmless shower. It can be pretty painful, even though it's a harmless shower.
The slime coat will not heal overnight. Any attempts to make drastic changes to the water chemistry will only lengthen the amount of time for it to heal.