Red-eared sliders and American bullfrogs (LONG THREAD)

[Lroszkow]

I unfortunately do not have experience with frog ponds, but I know a fair amount about frogs.
Here are some characteristics of a pond that attracts frogs.

Ponds designed for frogs, unlike fish ponds, must have very easy access to both the land and the water. Otherwise the frogs will view them more as pitfall traps than ideal habitats. If your pond does not have shallow edges, then add lots of plants, rocks, or logs along the edges so the frogs can easily get in and out.

Avoid disturbing the water too much. If you install a squirting frog, be sure that the pond has a calmer side where the water is not too agitated. The squirting frog should be enough to prevent low oxygen levels as long as there are no fish in the pond.
Keep dogs and cats away from the pond as these animals are terrifying to frogs.

Most algae are harmless for frogs. Tadpoles actually need some algae in the pond since they feed on it. Adding aquatic plants to the pond should help keep the algae from overpopulating to the point of causing harm.

Floating plants like water lilies should help keep the pond from overheating by shading the bottom. Surrounding the pond with tall marginal plants like sedges might also provide some shelter from the sun. If they are not enough, then you may have to install some kind of gazebo to shade the pond. Maybe a temporary shade would be better, since aquatic plants need sun.
On land you can provide some moist, shady areas to protect the frogs as well.
Yes, frogs, toads, and salamanders love leaf litter, especially when it is moist.

Frogs mostly travel from pond to pond when it rains, but without leaf litter, logs, rocks, and moist soil, they will perish once everything dries out and the sun shines again. This decreases their chances of finding your pond.
Chemicals like herbicides and pesticides often kill frogs. Even harmless pesticides like diatomaceous earth should be used in moderation, since they kill the insects that the frogs eat.

Hope this helps!

Thank you @Wayfarin! Your reply is greatly helpful, a bullseye actually. It directly addressed our concerns about the frogs, our root desire for keeping and maintaining the pond. Best Wishes!

 

[Hound Heaven]

I guess (since this is the only thread responding to a search under the word 'Frog'. I'll use this thread for a few comments and questions about maintaining a small (less than 100 sf in ground pond) that provides a home for local frogs. We live in the beautiful East Tennessee farm country. The pond came with the home and is a centerpiece of our circular handicap ramp. Shallow at about 24 inches, we are concerned about water temperature, algae growth, and dissolved O2 content.

Last year we emptied the pond after frogs had left the pond for hibernation and relined it with thick poly. On February 26, 2023, we saw our first frog hopping in. ELATED! Note: We have not cleared away last falls leaf fall, because we're uncertain about what needs the cover and natural insulation these material provides. If anyone, has experiences or opinions, Please share it.

If anyone has experience with small frog ponds or has a reliable internet site for frog care, Please share it.

Also, We're discussing the installation of a small fountain (a squirting ceramic frog has caught my wife's eye), addition of a couple of lily pads or other water plants. Searching thru several of the threads here has evidenced a tremendous amount of experience and effort to create naturalized environments for local fauna. We're hoping to gleam whatever nuggests of info you wish to share.

Thanks so very much for all the great information and the wealth of experience you folk share.
Whatever help you can provide is greatly appreciated.

Leon R.

Our pond was designed for goldfish but soon after it was finished a frog appeared. Then winter happened. Just a week or so ago he/she reappeared so apparently our pond is now its' home. Aloha from Oak Ridge.

 

[Wayfarin]

All right, but now can we get back to the subject, please?

 

[Wayfarin]

I love pond sliders!!!!!! I am rural with a farm pond and 5 different sized garden ponds. Every year a large pond slider comes up from the garden pond to lay her eggs. Two years ago a hatchling took up residence in one.of my small garden ponds. I was thrilled. I bought Reptomin and fed it all summer. It grew and grew then left. I guess it went to the farm pond where i see a huge number of different sizes/ages basking every morning. Guess im lucky to have them that close
Bullfrogs?????? Uh, hate them. If you have them they eat everything they can stuff in their mouths. When i hear or see one i capture it and move it to the nearby lake. I love my Green Frogs.

Aren't red-eared sliders kind of like that as well?
In fact, they will hunt prey larger than they can swallow. They are a bit like alligators.
I have no doubt that a red-eared slider would prey on green frogs.

You haven't experienced that? You've never had the pond slider killing frogs or other animals in your pond?
I have heard that they are primarily herbivorous but that's not what most people have experienced.
You've evidently never experienced the pond slider killing the bullfrogs since they present a problem to you.

(By the way, thank you for not harming the bullfrogs despite them being a nuisance to you.)

 

[j.w]

I love pond sliders!!!!!! I am rural with a farm pond and 5 different sized garden ponds. Every year a large pond slider comes up from the garden pond to lay her eggs. Two years ago a hatchling took up residence in one.of my small garden ponds. I was thrilled. I bought Reptomin and fed it all summer. It grew and grew then left. I guess it went to the farm pond where i see a huge number of different sizes/ages basking every morning. Guess im lucky to have them that close
Bullfrogs?????? Uh, hate them. If you have them they eat everything they can stuff in their mouths. When i hear or see one i capture it and move it to the nearby lake. I love my Green Frogs.

@catslave

 

[Wayfarin]

I was recently considering changing the design of the pond.

I was considering deterring raccoons in other ways, instead of basically keeping the outdoor pond in a cage or enclosure covered by a net or wire mesh.
Netting or mesh covering the pond at all times would be an eyesore.

I was thinking of something more natural, allowing frogs, dragonflies, butterflies, and birds easy access and exit of the pond whenever they please.

I also decided to change the location. The original place planned for the design of the pond doesn't receive enough sun to sustain turtles and pond plants.

Sadly, the pond would probably need to be much smaller. It would probably only be about 4-6' in size and hold about 100-300 gallons, depending on the depth and diameter.

I'm hoping that the pond could still have frogs in it, although that might not be enough space for the frogs to avoid being attacked by the turtle.

Since bullfrogs are so difficult to contain, and are preyed on by assortment of predators, I would probably avoid getting a pet bullfrog and instead have a pond with a variety of frog-attracting features. They might show up on their own, without any assistance.

 

[Wayfarin]

I would probably take the turtle inside for the winter months.
I was wondering...
Would the frogs be okay in the pond when it freezes over?
Do they need a deicer like fish? Could they survive without one under the ice?

 

[JRS]

The frogs usually show up on their own, usually during or after a rainstorm, migrating from local bodies of water. Depends on your climate/pond.

I have had frequent frog die offs over winter since I do not do anything much with the leaves and pond until the spring. I remove the pumps and take the fish in for the winter. My pond is about 30 inches at the deepest point, ~700 gallons, but one side is a berm so not as cold resistant as it would be if completely dug in to the ground. Also could be the decomposing leaves causing the issue.

 

[Wayfarin]

The frogs usually show up on their own, usually during or after a rainstorm, migrating from local bodies of water. Depends on your climate/pond.

I have had frequent frog die offs over winter since I do not do anything much with the leaves and pond until the spring. I remove the pumps and take the fish in for the winter. My pond is about 30 inches at the deepest point, ~700 gallons, but one side is a berm so not as cold resistant as it would be if completely dug in to the ground. Also could be the decomposing leaves causing the issue.

We found a bullfrog in our yard a few years back. We don't even have a pond yet.
Green frogs and American toads sometimes stick around even after the rainstorms, awaiting the next moist night to travel.
Spring peepers and tree frogs, too. But apparently they avoid breeding where fish may be found.

Our pond would only be about 24" deep and barely dug into the ground. I'd hate to lose a lot of frogs. They would be the stars of the pond even more than the fish, since the pond would be mostly covered by an abundance of plants, making the fish a rare sight (and hopefully harder for blue herons to see).

But taking the frogs inside for the winter would be an awkward challenge. The pond would be a "turtle and frog paradise" with a variety of vegetation in and around the pond. Fish and turtles will usually beg for food, but the frogs would be difficult to even approach.

I suspect they are a lot of green frogs, bullfrogs, and leopard frogs? I've heard that these species usually hibernate under the ice instead of underground. I've heard that leopard frogs have the least resilience in terms of survival under frozen ponds and will seek out flowing water whenever possible.