Red-eared sliders and American bullfrogs (LONG THREAD)

[addy1]

Wow, the frogs jump 3 feet high just to enter the pond? I knew they could jump that high but for some reason I didn't think they would be that persistent.

Our hot tub pond was about 3 feet tall maybe a bit more. I found a bunch of tadpoles in it when we had to transfer everything to a stock tank, due to a leak. I never imagined the frogs would get in there, straight sides. They sure did.

 

[GBBUDD]

but it may effectively TRAP it in the net.

I've seen them squeeze into the smallest of areas. a 3/4 inch net i feel is to big to stop them.

 

[Wayfarin]

Our hot tub pond was about 3 feet tall maybe a bit more. I found a bunch of tadpoles in it when we had to transfer everything to a stock tank, due to a leak. I never imagined the frogs would get in there, straight sides. They sure did.

Where you able to identify the tadpoles?
Where we live, there are two frog species, the spring peeper and the gray treefrog, that can climb glass, let alone brick, stone, or wood.
Both species and other tree frogs are present in Maryland.
Then again, a small frog can easily jump 3 feet. I wouldn't doubt a green frog or even a bullfrog's ability to jump that high.

 

[Wayfarin]

I've seen them squeeze into the smallest of areas. a 3/4 inch net i feel is to big to stop them.

I'd imagine that an adult American bullfrog could not squeeze through a net with gaps smaller than 2 inches.
A large individual's skull may be 2 inches in diameter. The frog would also be able to escape if it could stretch the gaps, though.

 

[GBBUDD]

2" oh i'm afraid i would not bet on that. now the toad i found in Bermuda sure that horse could never get through a 2" but don't forget bull frogs start off rather small. and as far as i'm concerned 2" is way to big.

 

[Wayfarin]

2" oh i'm afraid i would not bet on that. now the toad i found in Bermuda sure that horse could never get through a 2" but don't forget bull frogs start off rather small. and as far as i'm concerned 2" is way to big.

Yeah, to avoid testing the frog I would probably go for a net with smaller gaps.
I do not plan on introducing the frog until it's reached mature size.

 

[GBBUDD]

Yeah, to avoid testing the frog I would probably go for a net with smaller gaps.
I do not plan on introducing the frog until it's reached mature size.

I DON'T THINK YOU CAN FIND ONE PERSON who doesn't have frogs that made there way to there pond even a raised pond like my bog has 6 full time frogs this year and the bog is only a year old.

 

[Lisak1]

A bullfrog shredded a window screen (the kind designed to withstand dog scratching) on a basement window when he got caught in our window well. So if they can't get through it, they just might destroy it.

Side note - we also found a deceased bullfrog in our basement last summer. No clue how that guy got in. And he was dead dead dead... completely desiccated - and about the size of a frisbee when fully dried. If anyone has ANY CLUE how that happened, I'd love to hear it!

 

[Wayfarin]

I DON'T THINK YOU CAN FIND ONE PERSON who doesn't have frogs that made there way to there pond even a raised pond like my bog has 6 full time frogs this year and the bog is only a year old.

The net would be to keep the American bullfrog in, not to keep other frogs out.
I don't mind if wild frogs find their way into the pond, I just doubt that many would survive without getting devoured.

This is kind of off the topic of the thread. The thread is about keeping a red-eared slider and a bullfrog safely in the same pond, not about keeping wild frogs out of the pond.
If frogs really are ubiquitous in backyard ponds then I suspect they are able to survive while coexisting with turtles?

 

[Wayfarin]

A bullfrog shredded a window screen (the kind designed to withstand dog scratching) on a basement window when he got caught in our window well. So if they can't get through it, they just might destroy it.

Side note - we also found a deceased bullfrog in our basement last summer. No clue how that guy got in. And he was dead dead dead... completely desiccated - and about the size of a frisbee when fully dried. If anyone has ANY CLUE how that happened, I'd love to hear it!

Any window screen designed to stop dogs is pretty pathetic if it cannot withstand a large frog clawing at it.
Nonetheless, thanks for the warning about how strong they are. I honestly would not have thought that installing a strong covering would be necessary, but I guess I sometimes forget just how large and strong these frogs are.

I wish I could say I knew how the frog got in your basement, but I do not know what your basement looks like. It sounds like it must have entered your basement in a similar way to the other one that you described.

 

[Lisak1]

Any window screen designed to stop dogs is pretty pathetic

The point is - any net that won't keep frogs OUT also won't keep a frog IN. Just because you believe that frog is your pet (or turtle for that matter) doesn't mean they share the same feelings of loyalty. They will try every single day to do what nature tells them to do, and will claw, scratch, dig, jump, squirm, and squeeze their way through whatever opening they can. And they may die trying.

Out of curiosity, how do you intend to secure your net to the ground so the frog can't find his way out?

 

[Wayfarin]

The point is - any net that won't keep frogs OUT also won't keep a frog IN. Just because you believe that frog is your pet (or turtle for that matter) doesn't mean they share the same feelings of loyalty. They will try every single day to do what nature tells them to do, and will claw, scratch, dig, jump, squirm, and squeeze their way through whatever opening they can. And they may die trying.

Out of curiosity, how do you intend to secure your net to the ground so the frog can't find his way out?

I hadn't really given it much thought until now, but quite possibly the "net" would actually be a mesh stapled to a wooden frame that forms a "lid" for the pond.

It would not be an underground pond, but more of an above-ground outdoor enclosure that holds water.
It would probably look something like this when complete.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1719/2613/files/2_570243e3-bd69-48fd-a0e0-434bfdc76f80.jpg?v=1490858445

 

[Lroszkow]

I guess (since this is the only thread responding to a search under the word 'Frog'. I'll use this thread for a few comments and questions about maintaining a small (less than 100 sf in ground pond) that provides a home for local frogs. We live in the beautiful East Tennessee farm country. The pond came with the home and is a centerpiece of our circular handicap ramp. Shallow at about 24 inches, we are concerned about water temperature, algae growth, and dissolved O2 content.

Last year we emptied the pond after frogs had left the pond for hibernation and relined it with thick poly. On February 26, 2023, we saw our first frog hopping in. ELATED! Note: We have not cleared away last falls leaf fall, because we're uncertain about what needs the cover and natural insulation these material provides. If anyone, has experiences or opinions, Please share it.

If anyone has experience with small frog ponds or has a reliable internet site for frog care, Please share it.

Also, We're discussing the installation of a small fountain (a squirting ceramic frog has caught my wife's eye), addition of a couple of lily pads or other water plants. Searching thru several of the threads here has evidenced a tremendous amount of experience and effort to create naturalized environments for local fauna. We're hoping to gleam whatever nuggests of info you wish to share.

Thanks so very much for all the great information and the wealth of experience you folk share.
Whatever help you can provide is greatly appreciated.

Leon R.

 

[Wayfarin]

I guess (since this is the only thread responding to a search under the word 'Frog'. I'll use this thread for a few comments and questions about maintaining a small (less than 100 sf in ground pond) that provides a home for local frogs. We live in the beautiful East Tennessee farm country. The pond came with the home and is a centerpiece of our circular handicap ramp. Shallow at about 24 inches, we are concerned about water temperature, algae growth, and dissolved O2 content.

Last year we emptied the pond after frogs had left the pond for hibernation and relined it with thick poly. On February 26, 2023, we saw our first frog hopping in. ELATED! Note: We have not cleared away last falls leaf fall, because we're uncertain about what needs the cover and natural insulation these material provides. If anyone, has experiences or opinions, Please share it.

If anyone has experience with small frog ponds or has a reliable internet site for frog care, Please share it.

Also, We're discussing the installation of a small fountain (a squirting ceramic frog has caught my wife's eye), addition of a couple of lily pads or other water plants. Searching thru several of the threads here has evidenced a tremendous amount of experience and effort to create naturalized environments for local fauna. We're hoping to gleam whatever nuggests of info you wish to share.

Thanks so very much for all the great information and the wealth of experience you folk share.
Whatever help you can provide is greatly appreciated.

Leon R.

I unfortunately do not have experience with frog ponds, but I know a fair amount about frogs.
Here are some characteristics of a pond that attracts frogs.

Ponds designed for frogs, unlike fish ponds, must have very easy access to both the land and the water. Otherwise the frogs will view them more as pitfall traps than ideal habitats. If your pond does not have shallow edges, then add lots of plants, rocks, or logs along the edges so the frogs can easily get in and out.

Avoid disturbing the water too much. If you install a squirting frog, be sure that the pond has a calmer side where the water is not too agitated. The squirting frog should be enough to prevent low oxygen levels as long as there are no fish in the pond.
Keep dogs and cats away from the pond as these animals are terrifying to frogs.

Most algae are harmless for frogs. Tadpoles actually need some algae in the pond since they feed on it. Adding aquatic plants to the pond should help keep the algae from overpopulating to the point of causing harm.

Floating plants like water lilies should help keep the pond from overheating by shading the bottom. Surrounding the pond with tall marginal plants like sedges might also provide some shelter from the sun. If they are not enough, then you may have to install some kind of gazebo to shade the pond. Maybe a temporary shade would be better, since aquatic plants need sun.
On land you can provide some moist, shady areas to protect the frogs as well.
Yes, frogs, toads, and salamanders love leaf litter, especially when it is moist.

Frogs mostly travel from pond to pond when it rains, but without leaf litter, logs, rocks, and moist soil, they will perish once everything dries out and the sun shines again. This decreases their chances of finding your pond.
Chemicals like herbicides and pesticides often kill frogs. Even harmless pesticides like diatomaceous earth should be used in moderation, since they kill the insects that the frogs eat.

Hope this helps!

 

[catslave]

In short, are you asking if Teresa will eat a tadpole? Probably, unless you have a really large pond with lots of plants, logs for it to hide. Will Teresa eat a grown frog? Perhaps, but probably not if the pond is large enough. Frogs and tadpoles will not have a chance if you put them with Teresa in say, a 200-gallon pond. There a many frogs living in my garden pond and they spend a good part of the day on land wandering around the flowers and grounds. A Red Ear Slider (RES) is very unpredictable, and my advice is don't become attached to anything you put in with the turtle. You mentioned Terry is 12-years old. Anyone who keeps an RES for 12-years indoors is doing something right. Congratulations, she sounds like a happy turtle! One of our RES lived for 34-years indoors so Terry has many more happy years ahead. Do you really need to move her outdoors?

I love pond sliders!!!!!! I am rural with a farm pond and 5 different sized garden ponds. Every year a large pond slider comes up from the garden pond to lay her eggs. Two years ago a hatchling took up residence in one.of my small garden ponds. I was thrilled. I bought Reptomin and fed it all summer. It grew and grew then left. I guess it went to the farm pond where i see a huge number of different sizes/ages basking every morning. Guess im lucky to have them that close
Bullfrogs?????? Uh, hate them. If you have them they eat everything they can stuff in their mouths. When i hear or see one i capture it and move it to the nearby lake. I love my Green Frogs.