Pondless Waterfall Build Questions

[msr0459]

Yep.

Great! I had to purchase a new, 20' stick of 18", 350 bucks...2 lids another 100,.. a new commercial vault with an extension ( Blue Thumb brand) would have been well over 800! So you guys saved me a lot of cash..thanks!

 

[msr0459]

I'm a long way off from sealing with black foam. But since I used underlayment also on top of the liner, I'm now wondering if the foam will adhere to it like it does with liner?

 

[msr0459]

And speaking of underlayment. The rough cut basin was full of rocks and roots. I already have the sandwich of underlayment >liner>underlayment I was planning on using, but even after cutting roots and cleaning up edges, I'm now considering purchasing more underlayment, and starting with 2 layers, then liner, then another layer. The larger roots were all at the top area of the basin, as seen here.

I really had no where else to dig the basin. So would that extra layer of underlayment help, or just wasted money?

 

[GBBUDD]

What once of fabric do you have i have mentioned a few times 8 oz is what i like and it goes much higher. if you purchased fabric in lowes garden center youll need more like 4 layers.

i also used azek and a roofing protection board thats fiberglass and bitumen, There is also a roofing "paper made by GAF that the depot does carry that is very strong stuff tiger paw i believe its called theres a picture of it in the blog when i was rebuilding the bog

 

[Lisak1]

I'm a long way off from sealing with black foam. But since I used underlayment also on top of the liner, I'm now wondering if the foam will adhere to it like it does with liner?

Yup - it adheres. The pros have started doing bib liners with a layer of foam topped with underlayment.

 

[GBBUDD]

Hint when you have fabric over fabric use a heat gun or torch " careful with both for fire and melting" the heat gun when used on fabric that overlaps the lower level as soon as it shows dark black as in im melting you lay that fabric to the lower and it glues them together give a little push in aiding the bond. Ed the pond professor has a video out where he is doing this. try it on some scrap first .

 

[msr0459]

What once of fabric do you have i have mentioned a few times 8 oz is what i like and it goes much higher. if you purchased fabric in lowes garden center youll need more like 4 layers.

i also used azek and a roofing protection board thats fiberglass and bitumen, There is also a roofing "paper made by GAF that the depot does carry that is very strong stuff tiger paw i believe its called theres a picture of it in the blog when i was rebuilding the bog

I have no idea what oz underlayment purchased, whatever the website "halfoffponds" sells, labeled geotextile non woven underlayment. When purchased with the liner came with guarantee.

I'll check out those other choices, I don't think just one more layer of underlayment will hold back those roots, should they decide to wander back in the same direction.

Onward! Lol thanks again!

 

[msr0459]

Yup - it adheres. The pros have started doing bib liners with a layer of foam topped with underlayment.

Alright, thanks. I have some areas where the top underlayment became very "stretched" due to repositioning some of the boulders. I still need to build more rocks around those areas,.. should I just stack away..and let the underlayment stretch as needed,..or maybe cut through it some to release pressure? The liner underneath had plenty of slack, so I'm sure it isn't stretched.

 

[GBBUDD]

There is also a roofing "paper made by GAF that the depot does carry that is very strong stuff tiger paw i believe its called theres a picture of it in the blog when i was rebuilding the bog

then i strongly advi
They make no note what so ever as to the oz weight or tear. they call it an extreme Weed barrier . My guess it is nothing but he standard geotextile that is at best 5oz if you have aggressive roots rocks anything i wouldn't trust that to do the job. like i asked before how easy is it to push a pencil through the fabric

 

[msr0459]

how easy is it to push a pencil through the fabric

I'd forgotten you'd asked that. I just went out to the garage to try on a new roll. Granted, the pencil I used didn't have a sharp point, but, I could not push it through with pretty strong force. You're likely right though, I went back to their website and looked again. I actually thought they had two products, the geotextile underlayment, and the extreme weed barrier. It would seem they are in fact one in the same. It's from the company "Anjon".

That said, so far, while piling rocks, sliding rocks, etc., it hasn't shown any sign of tearing. I do now plan on using that roofing material from GAF you referenced earlier, for the basin. Then I'll also install the underlanyment, liner, underlayment sandwich.

 

[GBBUDD]

Call them find out what the oz, and tear resistance is

 

[msr0459]

Call them find out what the oz, and tear resistance is

Yep, I'll call Anjon, the manufacturer.

 

[GBBUDD]

No I'd call first pond or who ever it was a Jon makes all different stuff they would t k I w what the other company sold you

 

[msr0459]

Call them find out what the oz, and tear resistance is

I called the website, he said he'd find out and call me back. But said it was the exact same stuff listed on the Anjon Manufacturing site. I then called Anjon, he said it was 6 oz. I really thought that all the pond supply sites carried basically the same thing. Oh well, the bolders are in place, can't undo that.

Good thing the discussion happened before lining the basin though. I'm now going to do 2 layers of the GAF roofing fabric,..then underlayment, lining, underlayment.

This basin has been a PAIN! I couldn't dig down 3' as intended. Way too may huge rocks. Could only go down roughly the depth of a matrix blox, as indicated by the side view. Really no choice here. My plan is, after the liner is complete and blox in place, is to berm up the low side higher than the blox, compact the soil, use rocks as needed,..whatever it takes to give myself a few inches higher than the blox. The other pic shows the hillside, so will add rock for support there, while the last pic is the basic footprint, including the eventual culvert vault.

Any and all opinions are very welcomed.

 

[msr0459]

No I'd call first pond or who ever it was a Jon makes all different stuff they would t k I w what the other company sold you

I also called another pond, waterfall supplies website, (where I got the pumps and spillway) was curious what other sites are selling ... "thepondguy".. she emailed me back and said there's was 1/16 of an inch. No clue how that translates into oz or weight?