Periodic fish deaths

[WaterGardener]

With your pH at 8+, the baking soda won't raise the pH over 8.3. So you can add as much as you want to, all at once.

The KH should be at least 100, and I aim for at least 200 in my pond. My pressure filter is supposed to work best with the KH in that range and that gives me a good cushion if it starts to fall.

Fin rot is usually caused by poor water conditions, so your fish is probably a symptom of the troubles your pond has had. Fin rot is usually a bacterial infection and can be caused by different types of bacteria. It's also difficult to cure.

I don't feel that Melafix or Primafix is very effective. You need a good antibiotic and it's good you have the fish isolated so that antibiotic treatment won't kill any beneficial bacteria you still have in your pond. You never want to treat the entire pond with antibiotics.

Malachite green can be helpful if the fish isn't too far gone.

The most important thing to me is to correct the problems with the water as you are trying to do. The majority of fish will heal themselves in good water. But even with treatment, they can't overcome living in poor conditions.

Keep the isolation tank water as healthy as you possibly can, and if you decide to treat the fish, get a good antibiotic.

 

[pineapple]

you're most welcome!

Seems you may have a handle on it now, based on what you've said. I'd still investigate the KH issue because it'll help keep your params stable, which is the most important part of all this.

Now comes the fun part (I hope!) I'd take time every day, an hour if you have time, and do two things; one--count your fish. Have a definite number. It shouldn't be too hard with ~20 (right?). I used to do this with near 100, but for different reasons. I say this because IF you have fish dying and you can't find them, for sure this will upset your system. You HOPE when they die, they float and you can easily net them out. But also, by counting, you'll also do the second thing--watch ALL their behavior. They should all be moving almost all the time. They should tend to cluster up, though some will wander from the herd but those that do, they should be nibbling/searching for food. All that is normal behavior. They should not be standing still, drifting, pointing in any but a horizontal postion. And by watching, you'll see signs like fungus, fin rot, scales missing, tumors, etc. You'll get to know them all pretty well because you'll actually be scrutinizing hard, looking for anything but normal. It's when you can't find a fish/animal that a red flag goes up. Sometimes, they just are more shy but imo, most of the time when this happens, they ALL hide, not just a couple (unless it's mating season; then it's understandable).

Last question; what is your feeding habit? As long as you have the algae on all your UW surfaces, you can just stop for a bit and do the watching, unless you want to put a small amount to keep them friendly and make your job easier (watching) because fish that don't come up for food, is another red flag. But I'd be very sparse here, one pellet per fish at the most. Your soon-to-be bog filter will help in this regard (keeping water in better shape so you CAN feed a little bit).

And have patience. Test every day for a bit until nothing seems to be changing and then maybe once a week, as long as your fish are acting normal.

Good luck and keep us in the loop!


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I love counting the fish! It's one of the reasons I have persisted with the pond rather than turn it into a water garden. I used to have them all catalogued but there has been so much change lately I know it's out of date now. This is how I know that one of the shubunkin went missing - I knew I once had five big ones (and they all had names), but one day I could only find four... then three...the one I noticed died.. two left now. I have a number of 5cm shubunkin which I will need to identify now.

Unfortunately what you describe above doesn't sound like my fish much at all. After a water change (where they all follow the hose around and splash in and out of it) they behave like that - swimming around in a school, occasionally peeling off. Most mornings though they are on their own in separate spots around the pond and just hang there - neither at the surface nor the bottom. If I come out, they will come to attention and beg for food. Most of the little ones hide in the rock formations on and off through the day. Hopefully this improves in time with the water and I'll keep a close eye on it. I notice whenever there's any disturbance in the pond they will always flock over to nibble on any newly exposed algae, or check out the net.

My partner feeds the fish, I let them eat algae. Maybe twice or three times a week in summer. I'm vigilant about not letting any food go uneaten, my partner less so... I'm going to hold off from any food going in for a bit.

 

[pineapple]

I'm going to need to top up due to evaporation.

Do I use my dechlorination (prime) during or after adding water from tap? Is the dose based on the water added, or total volume?

I have always added prime with the water, dosed based on amount being added.

 

[WaterGardener]

If you are just treating for chloramine, you just need to treat the newly added water as you have been doing, adding it with the water.

If you are binding the ammonia, it should be dosed for the entire pond volume, every 48 hours. For that purpose, Prime is only effective for that period of time.

 

[pineapple]

If you are just treating for chloramine, you just need to treat the newly added water as you have been doing, adding it with the water.

If you are binding the ammonia, it should be dosed for the entire pond volume, every 48 hours. For that purpose, Prime is only effective for that period of time.

Brilliant, thank you. I'll try to do minimal top ups and treat just that water, and hopefully it will give the existing bacterias an opportunity to process any ammonia coming in with the water.

 

[CometKeith]

Brilliant, thank you. I'll try to do minimal top ups and treat just that water, and hopefully it will give the existing bacterias an opportunity to process any ammonia coming in with the water.

So I had a major outbreak of something bad a few years ago. I did about 3 major water changes about 50% and treated with malachite green over a period of about 10 days. It saved the majority of the fish and the ones that recovered are all healthy with no problems the last few years. The only difference is I have a good biological filter. Personally I would avoid all the scrubbing and cleaning., never worry about green water or algae, and just let your pond cycle naturally. Any water you add put in decor with it, but that is the only chemical you should ever use. The trick is to get the biological cycle working on its own with no help from you and your water will be healthy for your fish. Oh…healthy water doesn’t mean it’s clear!! You always hear about people finding unattended ponds with healthy fish. I think most of us screw things up by trying to do too much. Good luck!

 

[mrsclem]

Edit: pimafix, not melafix.

A combination of both can be used for severe cases of fin and tail rot.

 

[cas]

Just a note - leave the algae. It is helping with the ammonia.

 

[pineapple]

Two more fish deaths in the last two days. A 10cm comet and a 6cm comet - first small one to die. The 10cm developed a swim bladder issue and started drifting around. The small comet I just found floating sideways, gills looking rather red.

I've stopped doing all the frequent water changes and been letting a bit of algae growth to help build the biological filter up. I have built a crude bog filter and will start it up tomorrow, just a bit nervous to start it in case it (somehow) makes things worse!

Another fish is starting to look sick (beginning to protrude) and none of the fish seem particularly energetic. Many will float in place, on their own, in odd places where I don't often see them.

Today's test results: pH 8.2, ammonia 0(?), nitrate 0, nitite 0, dKH 6.

I've attached a picture of the ammonia test in case others think I am reading it completely wrong. (I am completely confident in the nitrate and nitrite readings)

1. I'm wondering if this could be fish that were sick during a time where the water quality was quite bad, and only just now succumbing to illness?
2. Could there be some infectious pest that was accidentally introduced?
3. We added a new oxygenating/filtering plant (Elodea I think) a little while before issues starting occurring, could this have anything to do with what's happening?
4. Do I need to start suspecting some other toxic compound that is making its way into the pond somehow (e.g. through soil runoff)?

Thanks for the ongoing advice, I'd be completely out at sea without the help.

 

[WaterGardener]

So sorry you are still losing fish.

Fish gills should be bright red. That's good. It's when they are pale or look jagged and have missing tissue that it indicates a problem.

Can you post a picture of the dead fish? Do they have a notch in the nose?

 

[pineapple]

So sorry you are still losing fish.

Fish gills should be bright red. That's good. It's when they are pale or look jagged and have missing tissue that it indicates a problem.

Can you post a picture of the dead fish? Do they have a notch in the nose?

Thank you for your kind words.
I've seen a mixture of white and red gills in the dead goldfish (I've been trying to check for signs of ammonia poisoning in the last few).

I didn't take a photo of either of these sorry, although I can see a couple of fish are unlikely to last the week and will take a photo of these.

Should I try switching my O2 pumps off?

I haven't noticed a notch in the nose but I'll be looking out for this now. Are you thinking KHV? Can this impact goldfish?

 

[mrsclem]

You mentiond soil runoff. Is there any chance that chemicals from the yard could have gotten into the pond? Lawn chemicals or even sprays can kill fish.

 

[pineapple]

You mentiond soil runoff. Is there any chance that chemicals from the yard could have gotten into the pond? Lawn chemicals or even sprays can kill fish.

No pesticides or herbicides used in the area in quite some time. Some slow release fertilizer pellets were in some nearby plants. We don't regularly treat the soil though.

I had used some glyphosate at one stage but it was some time ago, and didn't seem to correlate with any fish deaths in the following week. (It was a gel type and directly applied, so no overspray)

Any particular garden chemicals we need to be aware of?

 

[WaterGardener]

I was thinking of Costia, but I'm just grabbing at straws here, trying to think of something that might cause your losses.

Hope you can find a solution soon.

I wouldn't turn off the air. It certainly won't hurt, as far as I know.

The gills will turn pale after the fish dies. The red ones are likely recent deaths.

The folks at koiphen.com may be able to help you if you post there. There are some very knowledgeable and helpful people there. Doesn't matter that these are not koi.

 

[j.w]

Sorry to hear about more problems @pineapple

I'm just wondering if too many frequent water changes could be causing acidic water now which could hurt the fish? There was prolly something else going on too to begin with and one thing after another can change why they ae dying. Just a shot in the dark and hopefully something will help. Koiphen is a good place to go too for disease or problems w/the water.