Periodic fish deaths

[Mmathis]

I’m just getting in on this one, and haven’t had my coffee yet, so I apologize that I haven’t done more than skim through the answers. First of all, how OLD IS YOUR TEST KIT? It’s not a bad idea to change them out about a year after opening a bottle (dropper kits are preferable to test strips). Your numbers of everything being “0” is suspicious — with that many fish in only 1200 gallons, I would expect to see SOME ammonia, but especially nitrates. Anyway, those ammonia, nitrite, and nitrite levels are how you bio-filter is fed. Frequent water changes in an uncycled pond will prevent cycling from happening. Equally important is excellent water movement through pumps, waterfalls, bubblers, etc.

 

[SarahT]

I think I found it! (https://russellwatergardens.com/pages/koi-length-and-weight)
Gee, they really ramp up the waste quick.

Gives me another starting point for calculating how much load I can get away with (i.e. how many I am going to be able to keep...)

I agree with all the advice and commentary above. To add some perspective, I have a similar sized pond, at 1200 gallons (approximately 4500 liters) with a 3x6 foot, 1 foot deep bog (thanks to this group) in Florida US which has a long hot summer. I have 1 koi and 25 goldfish (were 3 goldfish a year ago; baby goldfish available for a new home!), and I don't see having more than the single koi in my pond, based on room for him to swim freely (the goldfish learn to stay out of the way or merely follow him around).
My previous biofilter could not keep up with the fish load of a koi and 3 goldfish, despite weekly filter changes, bi-weekly water changes, and plants in the pond. So I built the bog, finished it in late summer, and my water clarity and quality improved within days of going live. The final test will be in the height of summer, and I am sure I'll be adding aeration to supplement the waterfall oxygenation.
Good luck with your pond.

 

[Mmathis]

I agree with all the advice and commentary above. To add some perspective, I have a similar sized pond, at 1200 gallons (approximately 4500 liters) with a 3x6 foot, 1 foot deep bog (thanks to this group) in Florida US which has a long hot summer. I have 1 koi and 25 goldfish (were 3 goldfish a year ago; baby goldfish available for a new home!), and I don't see having more than the single koi in my pond, based on room for him to swim freely (the goldfish learn to stay out of the way or merely follow him around).
My previous biofilter could not keep up with the fish load of a koi and 3 goldfish, despite weekly filter changes, bi-weekly water changes, and plants in the pond. So I built the bog, finished it in late summer, and my water clarity and quality improved within days of going live. The final test will be in the height of summer, and I am sure I'll be adding aeration to supplement the waterfall oxygenation.
Good luck with your pond.

Be sure to keep us updated!

 

[Faebinder]

It's time to net your pond.

 

[brokensword]

I agree with all the advice and commentary above. To add some perspective, I have a similar sized pond, at 1200 gallons (approximately 4500 liters) with a 3x6 foot, 1 foot deep bog (thanks to this group) in Florida US which has a long hot summer. I have 1 koi and 25 goldfish (were 3 goldfish a year ago; baby goldfish available for a new home!), and I don't see having more than the single koi in my pond, based on room for him to swim freely (the goldfish learn to stay out of the way or merely follow him around).
My previous biofilter could not keep up with the fish load of a koi and 3 goldfish, despite weekly filter changes, bi-weekly water changes, and plants in the pond. So I built the bog, finished it in late summer, and my water clarity and quality improved within days of going live. The final test will be in the height of summer, and I am sure I'll be adding aeration to supplement the waterfall oxygenation.
Good luck with your pond.

you know, we'll be watchin' for you to get a severe case of LPS in a couple years...

 

[pineapple]

LPS

Lovely Pond Syndrome??

 

[pineapple]

My previous biofilter could not keep up with the fish load of a koi and 3 goldfish, despite weekly filter changes, bi-weekly water changes, and plants in the pond. So I built the bog, finished it in late summer, and my water clarity and quality improved within days of going live.

Wow, those results are remarkable! Quite a big bog, but gives me an idea of the size I would need to aim for (if I was doing nothing but bog filtration). Thanks for the context with the similar pond, this is immensely helpful!

 

[pineapple]

OLD IS YOUR TEST KIT?

I opened my API Pondmaster kit and ran my first set of tests on 23/2/20. Maybe it's time for a new kit just to be sure
(Probably not a bad idea to get a whole new kit anyway because I keep dropping the little glass vials and breaking them!)
Whenever I took water to the aquarium shop, just to check my test results, they gave me the same readings (using API drop kits also).
But I have another possible theory:

• My colour sensitivity is not so great and I am reading the ammonia level incorrectly. I double check with my partner and she thinks the test is showing a (yellow) 0ppm reading. I wonder if it is closer to 0.25ppm, and that the toxicity is being magnified by high pH and high pH swings. I only recently added conditioning minerals to improve the GH/KH, which were previously quite low, and I suspect I was getting pH variability over the warm summer day.

Speaking of pH, I've seen it go as high as 9.0 before. So long as it is not swinging wildly over the day, is there a maximum safe high pH? Could the fish load be giving me a high pH? (The pH is quite a bit higher than the tap water I'm adding in.)

 

[Mmathis]

@pineapple I don’t routinely test anymore, but did frequently when the pond was new — it’s a great learning process. I replaced my kits yearly. That was THEN. Today if I had to test, I’d be awaiting an Amazon delivery.

PH swings are not good, but I believe it’s normal to have a slight difference between am & pm readings. If your pH is stable and your fish are happy and healthy, the NUMBER isn’t that significant. Always have a KH test, and keep up with the KH level — simply put (because I’m simple), the KH is a measure of the pond’s ability to buffer against swings. What you don’t want to be doing is chasing your pH: high this day, so add a chemical; low this day so add a chemical, etc, etc. Test the pH and KH of your source water, as well. Hope that helps.

Yes, fish load can be a factor, but now we’re getting into REAL chemistry and the relationships that all of these chemicals and ions have with one another — and my head is spinning. Maybe someone else can answer that part.

 

[SarahT]

you know, we'll be watchin' for you to get a severe case of LPS in a couple years...

you know, we'll be watchin' for you to get a severe case of LPS in a couple years...

I've already had 3 cases of LPS; this is my 4th pond (I had 3 in Chicagoland before I moved here). The Big Yella Fella (my koi who moved with me) is already lobbying for a larger pond, but won't a bigger pond attract bigger alligators? (P.S. NO pineapple on my pizzas.)

 

[brokensword]

I've already had 3 cases of LPS; this is my 4th pond (I had 3 in Chicagoland before I moved here). The Big Yella Fella (my koi who moved with me) is already lobbying for a larger pond, but won't a bigger pond attract bigger alligators? (P.S. NO pineapple on my pizzas.)

well, we know who JDub and Dime are going fer the next holiday...

And yep your LPS is terminal; you'll never get cured now!

 

[addy1]

If you love the size shape build of your pond, just add a bog that is a bit higher than your pond and it waterfalls into the pond.

I do not have ANY filtration except the bog. I do draw water from mid to low pond, not the bottom. Therefore not drawing in debris that could clog up the bog. I use a external pump, with a leaf basket before the pump, which I never clean all summer. Which means I am not drawing in anything that can clog up the bog over time.

It has been running for over 10 years now, never cleaned, never drained. I do yank plants now and then all summer, groom all in the fall, rake in the spring to removed dead stuff. Other than that the pond runs itself. I never test the water, no need. I do not have koi. But do have, most likely 100 to 200 shubunkins, goldfish.

My bog is simple, liner , pvc pipes, pea gravel, plants. Oh and water. It is build so it does not drain dry when I turn off for the winter. Usually off for 5ish months sometimes 4, turn back on and within 2ish days the pond is back to perfectly clear.

 

[pineapple]

Can any advise on how to size a pump for a bog? I'm working out the design at the moment. I have a second pump that I run a little water feature from that I would like to repurpose. It's a Laguna PowerClear 3500, just wondering how to calculate the volume of big it could run.

I'm just wanting to build a smaller one to supplement the mechanical filter for the meanwhile, also to make sure I have the skill to manage it!

 

[Mmathis]

Can any advise on how to size a pump for a bog? I'm working out the design at the moment. I have a second pump that I run a little water feature from that I would like to repurpose. It's a Laguna PowerClear 3500, just wondering how to calculate the volume of big it could run.

I'm just wanting to build a smaller one to supplement the mechanical filter for the meanwhile, also to make sure I have the skill to manage it!

You might want to start a new thread to address this.

 

[brokensword]

Can any advise on how to size a pump for a bog? I'm working out the design at the moment. I have a second pump that I run a little water feature from that I would like to repurpose. It's a Laguna PowerClear 3500, just wondering how to calculate the volume of big it could run.

I'm just wanting to build a smaller one to supplement the mechanical filter for the meanwhile, also to make sure I have the skill to manage it!

it's not really cut and dried, imo. What I did is just put a wye on the pump outlet, which gives me 2 feeds. One I send to my waterfall and the other goes to the bog. With a ball valve on each, I can tailor each to my tastes. Realize, I have TWO pumps, so two feeds to waterfalls and two feeds to the bog. So, I'd say; if you should turn your water over in the pond 1-1/2 times per hour, use that size pump for the whole system, then do the wye and ball valve control.