Periodic fish deaths

[Jerri]

Water quality
* Ammonia Level (pond) - 0ppm
* Nitrite Level (pond) - 0ppm
* Ammonia Level (tap water) - 0ppm
* Nitrite Level (tap water) - 0ppm
* Ph Level, pond (If possible, KH, GH and chlorine) - varies, testing as low as 8.0 to 9.0. Today reading 8.2. KH: 107.4 GH: 143.2
* Ph Level, tap water (If possible, KH, GH and chlorine). - tested multiple times with different kits, not getting a consistent reading (!) 7.6 with pool kit. 7.0 and 8.0 with wide range pH test kit. Cl: <0ppm.
* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? Range of API drop tests (pH wide range + high range, ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, phosphate, KH, GH).


Other useful information:
* Water temperature? 24 C
* Pond size and how long has it been running? - estimated 4,500L (about 1200 gal). We have been looking after it for about two years, not sure how long the previous owner kept it.
* What is the name and size of the filter(s)? Oase Filtoclear 15,000. Supplemented with an air pump + 4 golf ball sized air stones, apparently 1200 Litres per hour from the pump.
* How often do you change the water and how much? Less than 20% per change for a big change. Changing every 2-4 weeks depending on water quality.
* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Yesterday, less than 10% (vacuuming and replacing about 200L of water)
* How many fish in the pond and their type? - 11 big comets/shubunkin (up to 15cm), 4 big koi, approximately 10 small comets/shubunkin (less than 10cm)
* What kind of water additives or conditioners have you used? Prime - adding with each top up of water
* What do you feed your fish and how often? Aqua One Economy Pellets - once every few days, aiming for what the fish can eat within 1 minute or so
* Any new fish added to the pond recently? Last added a couple of months ago - 2 of the large comets, 3 small shubunkin
* Any medications added to the pond? Recently added API Algaefix (every 3 days to weekly for a recent blanketweed problem, now under control).
* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and pond - Routinely adding beneficial bacteria. Sometimes product called Splosht, other times a 3-in-1 blanketweed competing bacteria that also contains barley extract.
* Any unusual findings on the fish? Recent deaths and illness .
* Any unusual behaviour like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Described below.

I've had a few individual fish deaths lately and I want to learn if there's anything more I can be doing for the goldies.

• First death was from lowish water level - a big goldie managed to beach himself in a pot and scraped himself up badly. Tried to save him in a quarrantine bucket with a small air stone + some Melafix/antiobiotics, but unfortunately this fish grew what looked like a white fungal infection and I couldn't save him. I'm putting this one down to bad luck.
• After clearing out the water and topping up, floating dead goldfish the same week. Had kind of white, glazed eyes - not sure how long he had been gone for, but everything looked intact, no weird injuries. I wondered if this was due to an oxygen drop (high temperature + recently adding bacteria) so installed an airpump as a safety net.
• Have had a little comet disappear, but I think a local Kookaburras might have decided it looked like a good snack.
• This week I have noticed one of the bigger comets seems to have developed dropsy (pinecone appearance, extremely bloated). He continues to have an appetite and swell well, although doesn't seem to be getting any smaller. After my bad luck trying to quarrantine and treat the last fish, I am hesitant to pull this one out.
• Last but not least, I found a dead big goldy yesterday, hiding behind a rock. Oddly this time, he had no rear tail (it was basically completely missing), and missing part of the cheek. Dark across the belly too. Hard to determine what might have caused this death - perhaps fin rot for some time and has been hiding away?

There are some unusual things with pond lately too:

• When it hit summer, there was suddenly a massive string algae outbreak - it good really dense. I quickly tried to bring this under control with algaefix and manually scooping/vacuuming the dead stuff out. This seems to have come under control now.
• The pH seems to run consistently high and I am worried this is a problem. Not sure if the extra aeration could be contributing to this or not. On bad days, it can hit close to 9.0 on a drop kit (wide range/high range).

It feels a bit out of balance at the moment. Every time I test though, all the quality numbers come up fine - apart from the high pH. Could this be my culprit?

Anyway, would be interested in people's thoughts, I think there is a lot I can learn here!

Just a few things I would change: switch food to API sinking pellets. Feed every 2 days- 4 is ok in cold weather where they are not as active but warmer weather needs more food or they will pick on each other- this is my guess for hiding fish with tail eaten. Goldfish and koi are dirty keepers and the less additive for food trace (API has my money) and beneficial bacteria, the better. You really don’t need it since you can grow algae and I assume this pond is planted. I add snails to pick up the bottom and algae. Sometimes they get on my lilies and I pick them off and pitch them back in to the center bottom. I have also added colorful guppies who love the top and can always be seen but do forage the bottom. They will eat algae too. Some of my big fish love the little snacks- snails and guppies. but not to worry, guppies replenish themselves quite rapidly, true ecosystem. All new fish should be quarantined for 2 WEEKS and treated with Paraguard, stressguard, metroplex, and kanaplex. The mela you use is too strong for a sick fish. Prime is wonderful to remove/stabilize any chlorine or metals and such in additive water. I like to add it, stability, and stress guard to a deep bucket, like trash can for 15 minutes before adding to my pond or tanks; and no dumping Prime in pond! The water that needs to be treated is not getting the remedy it needs this way. These carp types are hardy and the Ph being high with all other parameters spot on, is ok. Less algaecide would be good. You are raking it out- good maybe a top water plant to cover some water surface or over hanging trees to eliminate some sun exposure would be much better. Fish do like to nibble but too much of certain green stuff can deplete the oxygen, as you have guessed and added an air pump. It really sounds like you are on top of the pond and keep track of your fish splendidly! I keep a ton of cichlids in some of my ponds and the carps in others, my experience is not an over abundance issue, sometimes you will just lose some and it will be exasperating.

 

[Jerri]

Water quality
* Ammonia Level (pond) - 0ppm
* Nitrite Level (pond) - 0ppm
* Ammonia Level (tap water) - 0ppm
* Nitrite Level (tap water) - 0ppm
* Ph Level, pond (If possible, KH, GH and chlorine) - varies, testing as low as 8.0 to 9.0. Today reading 8.2. KH: 107.4 GH: 143.2
* Ph Level, tap water (If possible, KH, GH and chlorine). - tested multiple times with different kits, not getting a consistent reading (!) 7.6 with pool kit. 7.0 and 8.0 with wide range pH test kit. Cl: <0ppm.
* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? Range of API drop tests (pH wide range + high range, ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, phosphate, KH, GH).


Other useful information:
* Water temperature? 24 C
* Pond size and how long has it been running? - estimated 4,500L (about 1200 gal). We have been looking after it for about two years, not sure how long the previous owner kept it.
* What is the name and size of the filter(s)? Oase Filtoclear 15,000. Supplemented with an air pump + 4 golf ball sized air stones, apparently 1200 Litres per hour from the pump.
* How often do you change the water and how much? Less than 20% per change for a big change. Changing every 2-4 weeks depending on water quality.
* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Yesterday, less than 10% (vacuuming and replacing about 200L of water)
* How many fish in the pond and their type? - 11 big comets/shubunkin (up to 15cm), 4 big koi, approximately 10 small comets/shubunkin (less than 10cm)
* What kind of water additives or conditioners have you used? Prime - adding with each top up of water
* What do you feed your fish and how often? Aqua One Economy Pellets - once every few days, aiming for what the fish can eat within 1 minute or so
* Any new fish added to the pond recently? Last added a couple of months ago - 2 of the large comets, 3 small shubunkin
* Any medications added to the pond? Recently added API Algaefix (every 3 days to weekly for a recent blanketweed problem, now under control).
* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and pond - Routinely adding beneficial bacteria. Sometimes product called Splosht, other times a 3-in-1 blanketweed competing bacteria that also contains barley extract.
* Any unusual findings on the fish? Recent deaths and illness .
* Any unusual behaviour like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Described below.

I've had a few individual fish deaths lately and I want to learn if there's anything more I can be doing for the goldies.

• First death was from lowish water level - a big goldie managed to beach himself in a pot and scraped himself up badly. Tried to save him in a quarrantine bucket with a small air stone + some Melafix/antiobiotics, but unfortunately this fish grew what looked like a white fungal infection and I couldn't save him. I'm putting this one down to bad luck.
• After clearing out the water and topping up, floating dead goldfish the same week. Had kind of white, glazed eyes - not sure how long he had been gone for, but everything looked intact, no weird injuries. I wondered if this was due to an oxygen drop (high temperature + recently adding bacteria) so installed an airpump as a safety net.
• Have had a little comet disappear, but I think a local Kookaburras might have decided it looked like a good snack.
• This week I have noticed one of the bigger comets seems to have developed dropsy (pinecone appearance, extremely bloated). He continues to have an appetite and swell well, although doesn't seem to be getting any smaller. After my bad luck trying to quarrantine and treat the last fish, I am hesitant to pull this one out.
• Last but not least, I found a dead big goldy yesterday, hiding behind a rock. Oddly this time, he had no rear tail (it was basically completely missing), and missing part of the cheek. Dark across the belly too. Hard to determine what might have caused this death - perhaps fin rot for some time and has been hiding away?

There are some unusual things with pond lately too:

• When it hit summer, there was suddenly a massive string algae outbreak - it good really dense. I quickly tried to bring this under control with algaefix and manually scooping/vacuuming the dead stuff out. This seems to have come under control now.
• The pH seems to run consistently high and I am worried this is a problem. Not sure if the extra aeration could be contributing to this or not. On bad days, it can hit close to 9.0 on a drop kit (wide range/high range).

It feels a bit out of balance at the moment. Every time I test though, all the quality numbers come up fine - apart from the high pH. Could this be my culprit?

Anyway, would be interested in people's thoughts, I think there is a lot I can learn here!

I apologize for the long posts but… something else I wanted to know, does your pump run constantly with a sponge type medium with ceramic pebbles, lava rocks or something like those two? Get them in your canister and rinse when you add water, in the water you take out- never in new unused water, gently so as not to disturb all good bacteria but enough to remove spooge. Over cleaning the cycler or filters will cause this oh always high too. A pristine filter is not a good filter, let it get old and broke in and even torn a little. You may have to clean it between water changes but it will actually work better as a housing for beneficial bacteria. Filters and lava rocks, together are ideal. Sponge airators are my favorite as well, although it does add to the cleaning but it crystals the water beautifully. Some of my ponds I am not able to cover surface from sun so much, I live in 10b, S Florida, very hot and humid so I have added a UV light filter combo- love it. It cuts the algae production remarkably, provides more circulation, filter, and water agitation.

 

[Mmathis]

@Jerri You might want to start a new thread for your post. You’re more likely to get good answers since the OP was specifically addressing fish deaths.

 

[pineapple]

Just an update! I bit the bullet and got in a fish vet. Doc was able to confirm flukes under a microscope - apparently impacting the bigger fish more than the little ones. Just as well because there have been several more deaths in the past week.

We're now treating the pond with an anti parasitic medication. Fingers crossed this is the end of the drama and after a few doses I'll be posting about all how happy and healthy everyone is looking!

I sure have learned a lot through this, so hopefully the result is becoming a better place pond keeper overall.

 

[j.w]

Sure hoping it works and if so pizza party w/all the trimmings...............except of course, NO PINEAPPLE

 

[brokensword]

Sure hoping it works and if so pizza party w/all the trimmings...............except of course, NO PINEAPPLE View attachment 147130

sniff, Pineapple is ALWAYS welcome at OUR camp pizza flings; we don't discriminate. Gonna hurt some feelings, methinks, excluding this poster!!! Better offer to COOK them their pizza personally, hey? But if they want to climb on, well, use your discretion!

Sure am glad you found the underlying problem! Be looking forward to updated pics of your finny herd, PINEAPPLE!!!

Think if I say 'pineapple' often enough, it'll pass the censors through sheer boredom? Or was that 'sensors'?? heh heh

 

[j.w]

Well ok then Pineapple can be allowed but I might need to wear a mask around it

Maybe you all who are in love w/it can just bring your own and use as needed

No matter what I really do hope you can get your fish all back up and healthy @pineapple as it is so sad when we have health issues w/our wet pets and some end up dying

 

[Sisha]

Wow, you wrote a book. Great info. Not sure what part of Oz you're in but in our water comes from the Murray and it's PH is around 8.4 so I use rain water 6.2 to compensate. Chlorine isn't so much a problem as chloramine which takes 176 hours to dissipate and far more destructive to good bacteria. I've used 3 in 1 from bunnings and it killed 2 fish and sent the balance out of wack. I went from 200 odd shubies and comets to 8 after 5 white faced herons ate them all in about 30 seconds flat. Within 2 years the numbers were back to well over 300, I bought 4 blue shubies only. That's when the problems started. Overstocked big time. The larger fish were suffering. The plants took all the oxygen out at night, the poor things were gasping in the morning. Ferel cat was stealing, gouging and frightening my fish to death. Kookaburras take one or two sometimes and occasionally a redbelly black snake, I catch them in there at night, but the numbers were still far too high. 4 years ago I built a bog 1/3rd the size of the pond, doubled the pumps. Dealt with the ferel cat, got another dog that's not deaf and blind to chase off the birds and my fishies are happy, water is crystal, I can see dragon fly bugs on the bottom and have 4 waterfalls that sound great. So if you don't have the heart to cull the numbers a bog will go a long way to help and they look so good too. When I get string algae in the bog I put it in the pond for the fish to eat, they love it. Plants are thriving too. There are so many ways to build a bog, I just wished I knew about them 30 years ago. Good luck

 

[Dimelius]

Sure hoping it works and if so pizza party w/all the trimmings...............except of course, NO PINEAPPLE View attachment 147130

For sure.
Keep us updated, with pics is better

 

[pineapple]

I've used 3 in 1 from bunnings and it killed 2 fish and sent the balance out of wack.

How interesting - this is what I started using, and I suspect it did the same to me! (Kill fish, send balance out of wack, kick off many issues) I've stopped using the stuff now. Glad to hear it worked out for you after all the hard work!

My little self built bog is surprisingly running well, although starting to bow out at the sides so I'm a bit worried about longevity. Guess I had better start planning the upgrade!

 

[brokensword]

How interesting - this is what I started using, and I suspect it did the same to me! (Kill fish, send balance out of wack, kick off many issues) I've stopped using the stuff now. Glad to hear it worked out for you after all the hard work!

My little self built bog is surprisingly running well, although starting to bow out at the sides so I'm a bit worried about longevity. Guess I had better start planning the upgrade!

See? Only took you 5 pages to get LPS!

The bowing (I'm assuming you made it out of wood) can be mitigated by putting cross straps/braces on the top, from front to back (pulling or keeping the bowing sides from continuing). IF it's not too much trouble, you could empty, reinforce with the straps/braces, then put everything back and the bowing might not be there anymore. As wood gets wet, it can bend, so if you can, waterproof (it's why I recommend if using wood, treated lumber, though it too will bend but not rot as fast) or completely cover the box with liner.

Now you see why in-ground bogs don't need the after-attention; the ground isn't going to bow!

Btw, good to see you again; we're missing a lot of good 'pineapple on pizza talk' and well, could sure use some support in this area...getting my pizza brains bashed by you know who and a stubborn Italian...

 

[pineapple]

I'm assuming you made it out of wood

I used a big aquaponics tub - thinking it would be thick enough plastic. Spoiler: I was wrong!
I don't have the woodworking skills to make out of wood unfortunately, and didn't care to mess about with liner.
Have been thinking of changing it over to a food safe "IBC" as they can be found for cheap online, and look reinforced with the metal caging! And could be safely clad with some wood pretty easily.

As for pineapple on pizza debates, I can't go breaking my neutrality and start picking a side now...!

 

[addy1]

As for pineapple on pizza debates, I can't go breaking my neutrality and start picking a side now...!

Way to go! I love pineapple on pizza and no pineapple on pizza, swing both ways!

 

[j.w]

@pineapple wishing you much luck on finding the right thing to make your tub work for you!