New pond, nervous about winter

[Spartamets]

Morewater, I just re-read your instructions on siphoning. Thank you very much; it seems doable and not something I would have thought of. I had read through your first post too quickly the first time through. I just want the hippo gone; doing the vent and skimmer fix, etc., I just saw as a necessary part of the process of getting rid of the hippo (and keeping it away). If your technique works, then that's all I need. I have zero desire to get into pond reconstruction if it is not necessary. Thanks again.

 

[cas]

My stream is one piece of liner. Turning off the pump will not address the cause of the problem in any way.

I would really consider turning your pump off like morewater suggested. You said you had ice and then noticed the raised liner. The ice could have diverted your water, possibly under the liner. Get an aerator or pond breather. They are cheap and you don't have to worry about ice dams rerouting the water.

 

[morewater]

Thank you for the advice. I will try to siphon the hippo, but it was not caused by a leak (this time). My stream is one piece of liner. Turning off the pump will not address the cause of the problem in any way.

You don't know that your leak wasn't caused by your stream. Just because it is constructed of one piece of liner doesn't necessarily mean that the stream is not the source of the leak.

At two feet in depth, for the liner to actually be floating at the surface in sections, you have a significant leak. How else would you effectively have moved roughly half your pond volume from inside the liner to outside the liner?

Siphon it, disconnect the pump, blow out the line and let it sit for a week. I'll bet you doll-hairs to dog-nuts that your hippo doesn't re-appear.

However, as you're absolutely convinced that you don't have a leak, continue to run the pump, then when your problem recurs and you have hippo offspring, re-siphon and repeat error.

Doing a whole bunch of water top-ups mid-Winter isn't a wise choice for Winter pond maintenance.

 

[Spartamets]

I'm almost positive the ice did divert the water under the liner. It did so by the skimmer box, where there is a gap in the liner at the top. There is water there right now. I've checked elsewhere, and the liner edges on the upper part of the pond--top of the slope--are far from the pond on the far side of my berms (I have very large pieces of liner). The liner edges are far from the pond everywhere, in fact, except for at that spot. My water level is nowhere near the rim of my pond; I have a sunken pond. There is no "natural" overflow possible, except via the ice. What I actually think facilitated the water diversion was my netting. With the ice, the netting became a big draped sheet of ice that overhung that spot and got weighted down so that it was in contact with the water. When the ice melted, the netting was actually touching the bottom liner, which looked quite odd. I'm also not ruling out the possibility that the ice undid my fix for the initial skimmer leak. The new seal might not have been strong enough.

My main waterfall is 15 feet away from the pond; when it lost water in the Fall, it just made the area around it damp and had nothing to do with the pond itself. The stream liner also overhangs the pond by two feet. The last time my pond bubbled up was in early September when it was the skimmer that was leaking. I have a de-icer coming; the one I initially bought was the wrong one. I was going to get a pond breather, but now I know I need the ice kept away from that area of the pond, which is why when I ordered the new deicer with the ice melt I didn't get the breather. I also have an aerator, but I'm waiting for protective covering to arrive as well before I can get that set up. I would never have thought that an item made for ponds would not be weather resistant, but there it is. I'm hoping everything arrives before the next big freeze, but we're not expecting one for at least a couple of weeks here, so I'm not worried about that. This is about when I intended to change out the pump anyway. I am sorry that I misread your initial instructions about siphoning, morewater; that was the vital missing piece.

 

[morewater]

Why do you need a "protective cover"? What is its purpose? You do realize that with a "protective cover", you're not going to be able to monitor the problem that you're trying to fix, right? Is this "protective cover" transparent? Even if it is, you do realize that snow will cover it, rendering it opaque, correct?

A "de-icer" will not keep ice away, it will merely keep a thin, thin margin of ice open directly around the de-icer itself.

Do what you will. Good Luck.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Siphoning may very well alleviate this current problem, but given the impermeable nature of you soil, this will most certainly re-occur after a heavy rain.
If sometime in the future your budget will support the installation of the vent system, I would certainly recommend doing so.

 

[Spartamets]

Why do you need a "protective cover"? What is its purpose? You do realize that with a "protective cover", you're not going to be able to monitor the problem that you're trying to fix, right? Is this "protective cover" transparent? Even if it is, you do realize that snow will cover it, rendering it opaque, correct?

A "de-icer" will not keep ice away, it will merely keep a thin, thin margin of ice open directly around the de-icer itself.

Do what you will. Good Luck.

I need a protective cover for the aerator, because the maker of the aerator says it's required. I'm not looking to cover the pond itself. I'm working on siphoning the pond and I'll let you know how it goes. I know that the de-icer won't keep ice off the pond, but the area that I would like to keep ice-free (i.e., immediately around the de-icer) is by the skimmer box. It would stand to reason that by placing the deicer adjacent to the skimmer box, I could therefore expect the part of the pond next to the skimmer to remain ice free as well.

 

[morewater]

Use a weatherproof Rubbermaid tote (shoebox size) for your aerator compressor. Simply cut a flap in one side for the plug and another flap in the other side for the tubing. Put your aerator compressor on top of a brick in the container to keep it off the bottom of the container (and to weigh it down). Put another brick on the lid to stop it from moving or blowing around. Ensure that your compressor is well above water level to prevent back-siphoning in the event of a power failure.

Siphoning may very well alleviate this current problem, but given the impermeable nature of you soil, this will most certainly re-occur after a heavy rain.
If sometime in the future your budget will support the installation of the vent system, I would certainly recommend doing so.

Pricey stuff, Meyer. It works, but it's costly and the install of the pressure valve will require the draining of the pond. On several installs I've left a length of garden hose (no coupler) under the liner with the hose coupling end sticking out. In the event of a hippo (or capybara) forming, the siphoning is easily accomplished because there's already a drain hose installed under the liner.

It's a cheap, easily installed feature that if isn't needed, no big deal. If needed, it's there.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Use a weatherproof Rubbermaid tote (shoebox size) for your aerator compressor. Simply cut a flap in one side for the plus and another flap in the other side for the tubing. Put your aerator compressor on top of a brick in the container to keep it off the bottom of the container (and to weigh it down). Put another brick on the lid to stop it from moving or blowing around. Ensure that your compressor is well above water level to prevent back-siphoning in the event of a power failure.



Pricey stuff, Meyer. It works, but it's costly and the install of the pressure valve will require the draining of the pond. On several installs I've left a length of garden hose (no coupler) under the liner with the hose coupling end sticking out. In the event of a hippo (or capybara) forming, the siphoning is easily accomplished because there's already a drain hose installed under the liner.

It's a cheap, easily installed feature that if isn't needed, no big deal. If needed, it's there.

The vent system does not require a pressure valve. Pressure valves do work, but the pond water quality may be compromised.

 

[cas]

I need a protective cover for the aerator,

You can use a rubbermade container as morewater suggested or an overturned flower pot. In the picture below, my aerator is on the bench under the pot. This has worked for 12 winters for me.

 

[morewater]

Of course there are all kinds of ways to get rid of your Capybara.

From vent systems to berms to drainage hose buried around the pond perimeter.

My point for Spartamets is that if you're going to run your pond year-round in a cold climate that you don't really have any way of knowing what's going on in the pond when it's covered in ice.

The water can still drain from the pond while leaving the ice cover intact, making you think that you've got a normal water level.

Seen it. Fixed it. That's why I wear a Mustang full-flotation suit for winter pond work (when I'm around, that is).

 

[Spartamets]

Of course there are all kinds of ways to get rid of your Capybara.

From vent systems to berms to drainage hose buried around the pond perimeter.

My point for Spartamets is that if you're going to run your pond year-round in a cold climate that you don't really have any way of knowing what's going on in the pond when it's covered in ice.

The water can still drain from the pond while leaving the ice cover intact, making you think that you've got a normal water level.

Seen it. Fixed it. That's why I wear a Mustang full-flotation suit for winter pond work (when I'm around, that is).

It is definitely the case that you can't see what happens under the ice; I had no idea what was going on until the ice melted. I regard it as a fortunate happenstance that this problem arose during a freak two-day freeze about a month before the time when this weather usually gets here. It gave me a chance to see what happened before it was too late. (We usually have the occasional freeze and certainly overnight freezing temperatures at this point in the winter, but multiple day deep freezes don't usually start for a while.)

The siphoning seems to be working. The bump has shrunk, but it's a slow process. I don't expect it to be done until tomorrow afternoon. Since I have some confidence that the hawk won't get to the fish, I'm going to remove the netting this weekend. I want to keep the pump going as an experiment. I don't want to do multiple water refills, but this will be a way to perform a kind of experiment. If this happens again, I will know there is a leak. If it doesn't, then I will know that the problem lies elsewhere. I want to figure this out before the next sustained freeze. The fact that the hippo only formed when there was ice and not before is instructive for me. Either way, I will have the deicer and aerator out in before the next freeze. I will hopefully be able to hold off on any major work until the Spring, but if I have to fix things now, I still have a window. Hopefully I don't need it.

Thanks for the tips, everyone. I am still surprised that a POND aerator (that's what it says on the box) is not weather proof.

 

[Spartamets]

By the way, morewater, those are some amazing water features you've built.

 

[morewater]

It is definitely the case that you can't see what happens under the ice; I had no idea what was going on until the ice melted. I regard it as a fortunate happenstance that this problem arose during a freak two-day freeze about a month before the time when this weather usually gets here. It gave me a chance to see what happened before it was too late. (We usually have the occasional freeze and certainly overnight freezing temperatures at this point in the winter, but multiple day deep freezes don't usually start for a while.)

The siphoning seems to be working. The bump has shrunk, but it's a slow process. I don't expect it to be done until tomorrow afternoon. Since I have some confidence that the hawk won't get to the fish, I'm going to remove the netting this weekend. I want to keep the pump going as an experiment. I don't want to do multiple water refills, but this will be a way to perform a kind of experiment. If this happens again, I will know there is a leak. If it doesn't, then I will know that the problem lies elsewhere. I want to figure this out before the next sustained freeze. The fact that the hippo only formed when there was ice and not before is instructive for me. Either way, I will have the deicer and aerator out in before the next freeze. I will hopefully be able to hold off on any major work until the Spring, but if I have to fix things now, I still have a window. Hopefully I don't need it.

Thanks for the tips, everyone. I am still surprised that a POND aerator (that's what it says on the box) is not weather proof.

Glad to hear that the siphoning is working for you. Yeah, it's slow.....but at least it's constant and doesn't require any electricity.

The aerator compressor is sort of waterproof, it's the air inlet that creates the problem in cold weather. It's a little felt disc (depending on your manufacturer/model) that is prone to getting damp and then freezing. By keeping it off of the bottom of the container, you eliminate the chance that it'll be sitting in water, even if the container leaks.

 

[morewater]

By the way, morewater, those are some amazing water features you've built.

Thanks, I've got a whole bunch more but am technologically challenged and can't figure out how to upload them from my IPad to my PC.