New pond construction. The Water Garden Pond

[fishin4cars]

Well finally my contractor got smart. He brought out a REAL concrete finisher. OH BOY, Did we get a surprise. First off he showed my contractor all the mistakes you mentioned and even more. I went through with him and showed him my concerns, and things I really didn't like. I talked my contractor in splitting the cost and letting this guy finish things. We were going to go with a stained finish and the finisher said scrape that idea. He has a overlay that can be put over the whole patio and the sides of the pond that will smooth all the finishes out. Make the patio stronger and 50% more resitant to cracking and can cover the original porch, patio, and the sides of the pond to make it all blend as one. (Which is an effect I have been after all along.)
He also looked at the walls and now is concerned with the wall between the two ponds as he thinks the footing wasn't dug deep enough on that side. He wants us to dig down behind the wall now and build a back up wall 8" thick and at least 12" deeper than the original wall. he thinks using the cinder blocks and filling them the same way as the water fall end is probably the best as if the soil does move and we all know that's always a possibility that it can withstand more flex if it has the vertical rebarb. I still have enough cinder blocks left to do that and the cement to make the wall at almost no additional cost except one day labor. My contractor again has told me if I'll just pay his helper for the day then he'll help set this up at N/C.
So Tomorrow we will finish the wall and pour the back patio. Then Saturday the finisher will be here. Hopefully if all goes well we may be laying the backing material in by the first of next week????

 

[j.w]

Hooray it sounds like it's all coming together and somebody finally knows what they are doing :trampolin:
Bet you feel relieved now Larkin

 

[Waterbug]

Your contractor surprises me. I expected him to disappear when the jig was up, that's standard operating procedure. But he's sticking it out, good for him.

Hopefully it'll all work out.

 

[fishin4cars]

Got the back patio sidewalk poured today, Finished installing the back up wall behind the end retaining wall. cemented the 4"x4" posts this morning and built the frame up for the decking late this afternoon. Also had a crew working in the back clearing the back 3 acres for the horse fencing. So it doesn't look like a lot got done today but actually was a very productive day. I'm seeing progress. Picked out the stamping for the overlay on the patio. If it comes out like the finisher says it will I'm going to really like the turnout. crossing my fingers on that one. He was suppose to show up in the morning but called this afternoon and said all the materials didn't show up in time to get it for in the morning. so we will have to wait until he gets another break to get him out. But at least it's not a big hurry on him as he is just finishing off the patio.

 

[Waterbug]

I hesitate to point out things, just tell me to stop if too much... 4x4 in concrete can really reduce the life of the post and isn't to code in at least some states. Metal anchors are required for decks.

 

[fishin4cars]

Chalk that one up as another mistake. The deck does sit most of the weight on blocking but the posts are cemented in for anchor. Most of that project is mine, DYI, i probably should be reading up more on codes and practices on all this.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Are they pressure treated posts?

 

[Waterbug]

Not really a very big deal. Lot's of builders still swear they should be in concrete. You'll still get a very long life out of them.

Fence posts are the same deal, but I don't think there's any code for that. Back in CA everyone had Redwood fences and the posts rotted right at ground level. Still good below grade (no O2) and fine above grade. I read of one fence guy who set posts just in road base (mixed sharp rock). That reminded me of when I was a lad and was building pole barns. Also rock filled, no concrete. So I've never been pro concrete touching wood.

 

[fishin4cars]

they are pressure treated, all wood that is even coming close to the ground is pressure treated. the biggest issue if they do start to rot is that that'spretty much it for my anchors in stronger winds. the good thing is I can always cuta bad post and block up for a repair. Spent the whole day staining and water sealing all the boards before we install them. I told the guys NO staining over the ponds, EVERYTHING will be stained and allowed to dry at least 24 hours before installing.

 

[fishin4cars]

the Gazebo is taking more time than anticipated. Due to rain On Tuesday and us not working on the 4th of july we kind of took a small break from it all. I got to get a shot of the lily I got from Addy. Even prettier than in the pics for sure. I'm still waiting tor the lighter pink to bloom. Also Got a good pic of one of the baby koi that was born in the pond this year. I have been thinking all this time it was a ki Matsuba. But after looking at the pics, Could I have my first Ki Kumonryu. It's a Doitsu as you can see in the pic. He's right beside what is very possibly his Dad. A solid Kin Ki Doitsu we call sunshine. Just the row of scales down the upper back. All the rest of it's Body is scaless just like the Kumonryu Shamu and Sunshine. The only pic of could get of Toby is kind of bad but at least I got one so everyone could see he's still growing and a Ugly Ducklin. Wonder if he'll ever turn into a swan????

 

[Waterbug]

Looking good!

Just as a side note more for readers than for you Larkin because it's already done...I just looked at the showcase thread and saw the blocks used to build the walls...it would have been better if bond beam block had been used rather than regular block. Bond beam allows the poured concrete to form solid continuous horizontal concrete "beams" and horizontal rebar. With regular block you only get vertical columns of concrete. For Larkin's application I'm sure the structure is plenty strong enough thanks to all the vertical rebar and the solid concrete back fill. But for people thinking of block walls above grade, or concrete collars, you really want to use the bond beam block imo.

 

[fishin4cars]

Waterbug, I fully agree with you. Again one of those mistakes that you run into with an inexperinced builder and simply not learning until after the fact. I am hopeing I'll be ok. I can already tell you that there is a good chance this pond will be rebuilt at some point down the road. I hope to get a good 3-5 years out of it. But just from where I see things now and what I am still learning on a daily basis, Even with a lot of planning this one needs some improving. I just hope nothing serious need repairing after the fact. I'm learning from the mistakes, and I'm sure there will be more. Overall though I would say I'm satisfied but far from impressed. lol I think it's coming along though. Hopefully will at least get water flowing through the pond soon. Still a long way to go until I get it all hooked up though.
On a side not I located 2 Cetus seive filters in a town near by on craigslist. One brand new the other was used for about 8 months. they are both in perfect condition and a deal I couldn't pass up. Curt if your reading this and found my threads, THANK YOU AGAIN! So that's one more piece I can knock off my want list. Now just have to build a pump room, buy the correct size external pump/pumps for them and either buy or build a trickle tower.
I was highly considering running a bog filter on this set-up. but the more I think about it the more I wonder if I should. short term I think it would be beneficial, long term though I wonder If I'm building a bigger headach considering it wil be Koi Only. As of now I'll be running a AtlanticPS9000 skimmer with prefilters through a Atlantic Big Bahama BF4800 Filterfall unit. Then secondary will be the two seive filters from the bottom drain with the trickle tower and could either pump back some water to the bog, or use that for the midwater returns. Still debating on that right now. Any other suggestions appreciated.

 

[Waterbug]

I think you're golden. I can't see every detail but I think it'll out last us both. You have a lot in the plus column. Walls aren't that high above grade. You have a liner so even if say that block wall split and sank back a few inches you might not even notice. If this were to be a gunite or Rubberizeit coating type deal, yeah, it would have to be torn out. Liner makes it all better, assuming the seams are good. I've never built a pond too large for unseamed EPDM, but if I ever do I think I'd go with polyethylene instead. Seams scare me. But you did it right laying it out on concrete. I've seen guys try to do it in dirt on a 2x4.

I think you're on the right track wondering whether to bog or not. I like bogs but I've never kept high end Koi. If I was really concerned with color for example I would skip the bog. Or if I was keeping expensive fish I'd skip the bog. It just comes down to control. Bogs do great things, but you can't really control them like a sand filter or a sieve. If a bog starts throwing out a lot of DOCs or Aeromonas bacteria for example, there not a lot you can do about it. In a water garden $1 worth of feeder fish dying is one thing, but $5,000 in Koi is another matter. Like always, no right or wrong answer, just the kind of pond you want.

Another way to look at it would be pros and cons. Most of a bog's pros you're going to be handling with other filters. The only really benefit left would be as a settling tank. Not well thought of in Koi circles. You could add a sand filter to pick up that task.

 

[fishin4cars]

The seam is actually going to end up just above the water line. it looks like I only needed about 8" of liner and that is just to have something to go over the walls to secure. I think it seamed pretty good. I did the 45# air injection along the side of the seam and it didn't bubble up except in one spot and that will be cut out completely. I've decided to drop the skimmer down about another 1.5" this will drop the overall water level against the outside wall and not put as much pressure on the walls. plus if we figured it all out right this should put the water level just below where the cap will be. As you stated my biggest worry is a build up of DOC's in the bog. I'm thinking at first it would be a nice add and might lower nitrates slightly, but long term I may be adding as more problems then good. I've never run a sand filter on a pond but have on the old house swimming pool. I may consider a sand or gravel filter to help remove fine particles if needed, But at this point i don't think I'm going to plan on adding one, just going to keep the possibility in mind just in case and allow enough room and design the piping so that it can be added if needed.

 

[Waterbug]

Oh I see on the liner now. I was wondering why such a narrow piece was being added. I never heard of the 45# air injection test before. You just point compressed air at the seam to see if the air gets in? Clever.