My pond runs all winter, zone 2/3

[Mmathis]

Matala makes a pre-filter like that. They have a single and a double- core version. Want to say I saw the double-core for under $50, but don't know if it came in different sizes. I want to try that myself, but my HOME DEPOT pump isn't made to accept anything on the intake end!

 

[MitchM]

...If you have little or no water movement, then you will have much more ice.

Right. I'm trying to weigh the pros and cons of ice cover. I think that with ice cover, you have more stable water temperatures, but without ice cover, you have greater gas exchange.
I think the key is how much difference in water temperature there is between the two. For instance, if my pond stays at 38F with ice cover, I wonder how much lower would the temperature be without ice cover?
I think at this point if I try to add water movement to my pond, I have this giant ice cube sitting on top that will only serve to cool down the whole body of water, probably killing the fish.

 

[callingcolleen1]

I always recommend that the heater be placed where the water moves well to help heat a larger area of the pond, I try to mimic the creek or river, the water is always moving in those bodies of water and the fish do well. My goldfish and Koi do very well with the setup I have, and aways have done very well, even during much colder winters. I think there is a greater risk of fish death with total ice coverage or large amount of ice coverage for long periods of time. Running water is natural all winter in rivers and it does keep then water fresher. You don't need to move the amount of water you would during a hot summer, you can use a smaller pump or flow half the water you normally would, but keep the pump off the bottom and then it should not circulate the colder water with the wamer water so much.

Spring comes early to my pond every year, soon the pond plants will be poking though the old dead plant material and the pond will look so alive. People think I have a "micro climate" going in and maybe I do with the ponds positioned between two houses and the cattle trough heater. I like to enjoy spring and have a longer season, life is short, so why wait extra long for the ice to melt when you don't have too!

 

[callingcolleen1]

Turtle Mommy I probally paid more than I should have for that filter I am using, but the only guy that carries them in town jacks the price up I am sure. If you look online you can find a cheaper one most likely. I will check online after work and see If I can find cheaper versions. I don't why they make some pumps that don't have fittings for a good pre-filter, I would not buy pump unless it can hook up to other filters. Good luck finding a filter to fit that pump from Home Depot, you may have to get creative and make a filter if you can or something.

 

[sissy]

I used a plastic coffee can and glued plumbing fittings to it with filter stuff inside and can lid drilled with holes and wired on for now .I did find a big plastic juice jug after that actually screwed in my pump and drilled holes in it but have not gotten any farther with it

 

[Dave 54]

I have old fashion barometer, colored water in a glass with a spout, hangs on the wall. In winter you get very high pressure when it is very cold, like when it is minus 40, the water gets pushed down the spout till it is sideways! We have not had that very cold weather yet, but when it comes the barimetric pressure can read higher than 105kPa. In the summer you get very low pressure, when very low, like when a big thunderstorm coming, the water goes up the spout and can fall out cause the air pressure so low, when that happens there is a little cup that catches the water below the glass. I just love my old fashion barometer, best birthday present my sister ever got me over 12 years ago.

We have a smaller more modern one still in its box , I really must get it out and set it all up

rgrds

Dave

 

[mtpond]

When my pond was iced up 70 to 90 percent my bottom temp was 38.4 to 38.9. At 40 percent and less iced over pond bottom temp dropped a degree. This is only my second winter but I feel the pond should have an area that is open.

 

[callingcolleen1]

Yes, I feel there should be an area that is free of ice with good water circulation, even if it is minus 40 outside. I think the gases that can build up under the ice are more dangerous than ice cold water. I have never lost fish when it was minus 40 before, and when the temp is that cold the open water hole is much much smaller.

Very soon I will begin to get the other pumps going too, to simulate a natural spring runoff. This will help churn the water and rid the bottom of the ponds of left over debri and leaves.

Spring is coming soon, the Ground Hog said so..... and he better not be wrong!

 

[MitchM]

Thanks for those numbers, mtpond.

 

[callingcolleen1]

My pond is 32 degrees, top, bottom is around the same from what I can read. Used the greenhouse thermometer cause the other one is frozen below the ice in the bottom pond.

The bottom pond still is half covered with ice but the top two connecting ponds are mostly all melted. The bottom pond had more ice cause the water flows slower there and the water in that pond is not level with the ice. In the top two ponds the water level is always the same, flush with the ice, but the bottom pond the water level drops below the ice level. The bottom pond shows all the evaporation and water level drops because it keeps the top two ponds alway full to the top.

Mitch, if your pond is all one level, and you have not topped it up for a long while, then I suspect the water is below the ice, and the ice is now a "shell covering". This shell covering can take longer to melt, but will also keep your pond warmer. If you were to top up your pond to the same level as the ice, and circulate the water, then the ice would melt much faster. If your water is currently not circulating, then start with less water flow, to simulate a natural early spring flow.

First picture is top pond, water coming out of black hose, large mess of aquatic mint and Hornwort floating near hose, no ice,

Second picture you see the bottom pond (has duck floating) water level is below ice,

Third picture is from middle pond, water is moving out of a hole in the log and you see the bubbles. Ice is flush with water.


Last picture you see the ice shell above the the water level in the bottom pond. Water is flowing from under the ice as the water way has a thick ice shell still, see the bubble trail.

 

[MitchM]

Thanks, Colleen.
At 32F, your fish seem pretty active. Healthy, well fed and a great environment, no doubt. I imagine they were probably sourced locally way back when?
So if I understand this right, there are two sources of heat for our winter ponds, the heat from the earth below, which has tremendous capacity, and the surface heater that prevents ice from forming on the surface.
I think I read somewhere where higher moisture content contributes to higher ground temperatures. Dry earth will result in lower temperatures. I think we have fairly moist earth conditions here.
It may not be so bad then if I was to add some circulation in my pond, a small amount to start. That would help melt the ice cap from below and not shock the fish with a sudden temperature change.
I have not added any water, but the water level does come right up to the bottom of the ice sheet.

 

[callingcolleen1]

Have not fed the fish since last fall, they are "fending for themselves" right now, lots of natural winter food readily available to them if they wish. If the temps stay warm then I suspect they will soon be muching on the lush green algae and hornwort, as they always eat that first in the early spring. Dispite my cold pond temperatures, the fish all look colorful and healthy. I never used to every take my water temperture during the winter as I don't think the cold hurts them at all. They always seem fine every spring, even after the hard winters we have had in the past. My pond is only three feet deep at the most, and at that depth I don't think the temperatures can be much different.

I do have different types of koi, some are mostly solid colors, which are supposed to be very hardy, and some are different colors too and they all seem good. I think my fish are very healthy because they have not been moved for many many years, the big koi in the top pond have been there for at least 12 years or so since they were last moved. They were very small back then, and when I last re-did there pond they were still small and easy to move. Now they are very very large and would need to be moved in a large pillowcase if I every get around to remodeling their current top pond again.

Mitch, once you get your pond circulating again, raise the water level flush with the top of the ice, that will melt the ice faster. Right now the water is just right below your ice, and your ice looks to be five or more inches thick from your picture that I saw. Your heater appears to be sunken below the top of the thick ice, but that should change soon with the warmer weather pattern we seem to be in. Hopefully that groundhog is right, and spring is on the way!

 

[Mmathis]

I don't why they make some pumps that don't have fittings for a good pre-filter, I would not buy pump unless it can hook up to other filters. Good luck finding a filter to fit that pump from Home Depot, you may have to get creative and make a filter if you can or something.

Have had my eye on a different pump from the beginning, but needed to get one in a pinch, so..... I'll buy a new one and use the current one as a backup. That's one of those things you don't think about when you're new and purchasing equipment -- never occurred to me that I would need to attach something [like a pre-filter] to the intake, so it wasn't a feature I was looking for, or knew to look for at the time. Live & learn!

 

[callingcolleen1]

Yes, we all have made mistakes and got pumps we were not happy with. I look for pumps and filters in the fall, even if I don't need them right away, cause the deals are better in the fall, and a extra pump always comes in handy!

 

[Dave 54]

It's always best to learn from an experanced pond keeper they can stop you going off in the wrong direction

Dave