Let's talk liners and liner protection

[Dimelius]

Yep! You wouldn't believe how much trouble one can get in for not returning equipment and ammo!

i can believe, like is right to be! ahah

Good luck with your rocks and some soil

 

[brokensword]

Yeah, I may go that route. It won't help much with the sides though. And of course, it means carrying bucket after bucket of sand down from the neighbor's front yard... <sigh!>

here's an idea; you put sand down and pile it a bit on the first foot or so, on the sides. Then lay in your liner. You fill a foot, pull the liner away and dump another foot of sand all around. Fill again 12". Dump more sand behind your liner. Your water weight/pressure/force should compress the dumped sand as you go and even when filling, will push against it. I think this way, you'd probably get that sand side you want. I'd dig your pond wider to help compensate for any loss of volume, doing this.

Alternately; can you get some 2" foam board and line the sides with that? Light and easy to transport...

 

[TheFishGuy]

here is my idea:

You seem to like the pavers idea, and I think it makes some good sense, but I worry that they could break and or still have some sharp edges.

sooo... you put the pavers down and then do a thin layer of sand on top, that would lessen the amount of sand you have to use, but provide you with similar protection as simply a large sand bed.

what do the experts think?

edit: I just saw brokenswords idea for the sides, that seems great!

 

[GBBUDD]

I had glass around my cistern and trust me i hear with the buckets of sand being not high on the list. theres a product here in the states thats used for roofing it's a 1/8 fibergalss sheeting that has a bitumen infused coating not anything you want in the pond but level off the area place some fabric a layer of this stuff and then the liner i think you'd be fine.
the product im talking about is the black the white is azek and it is touff on the flat when sandwiched but not so much if there are zoids like spanning rocks

 

[YShahar]

here's an idea; you put sand down and pile it a bit on the first foot or so, on the sides. Then lay in your liner. You fill a foot, pull the liner away and dump another foot of sand all around. Fill again 12". Dump more sand behind your liner. Your water weight/pressure/force should compress the dumped sand as you go and even when filling, will push against it. I think this way, you'd probably get that sand side you want. I'd dig your pond wider to help compensate for any loss of volume, doing this.

Alternately; can you get some 2" foam board and line the sides with that? Light and easy to transport...

You know? That might just work! I do have some sand that I salvaged from the bottom of the previous much smaller pond, but not nearly enough to do more than coat a shelf or two.

But I'm thinking the foam board would have a better chance of success (assuming I can find something like it around here). Starting Sunday morning I'll start calling building suppliers to see what I can find in terms of heavy-duty cushioning or some type. Let's see what I can come up with! If I don't find something useful, then I'll check how much to have a bag full of sand delivered (and make sure the neighbors are OK with having yet another load of building material dumped in their front yard). At the moment, there are two 1500 kilo bags of river pebbles sitting there waiting for me to devise an easy way to get the stuff down here! Glad I've got accommodating neighbors!

 

[YShahar]

I had glass around my cistern and trust me i hear with the buckets of sand being not high on the list. theres a product here in the states thats used for roofing it's a 1/8 fibergalss sheeting that has a bitumen infused coating not anything you want in the pond but level off the area place some fabric a layer of this stuff and then the liner i think you'd be fine.
the product im talking about is the black the white is azek and it is touff on the flat when sandwiched but not so much if there are zoids like spanning rocks
View attachment 147821

That looks similar to the stuff they use on rooftops here, which also uses bitumen. I'm going to make a round of building suppliers on Sunday and see if I can find something like that (or something equally tough, malleable, and durable.

 

[TheFishGuy]

You know? That might just work! I do have some sand that I salvaged from the bottom of the previous much smaller pond, but not nearly enough to do more than coat a shelf or two.

But I'm thinking the foam board would have a better chance of success (assuming I can find something like it around here). Starting Sunday morning I'll start calling building suppliers to see what I can find in terms of heavy-duty cushioning or some type. Let's see what I can come up with! If I don't find something useful, then I'll check how much to have a bag full of sand delivered (and make sure the neighbors are OK with having yet another load of building material dumped in their front yard). At the moment, there are two 1500 kilo bags of river pebbles sitting there waiting for me to devise an easy way to get the stuff down here! Glad I've got accommodating neighbors!

I didnt know you had another pond in your past! got any pictures?

sounds like you have a solid plan!

 

[GBBUDD]

It say your a good egg when neighbors allow stuff like that.

 

[GBBUDD]

You put two layers of that stuff down on a layer of fabric and it should span some pretty good spaces like the size of your hand.

thats exactly what is it roofing sub base protection

 

[GBBUDD]

fill in any big voids that you can't get the rubber to contour span it with the fabric and fiberglass then when you start filling the pond with water pull back the edge and slip sand in where needed a little water and it should fill it for you

 

[YShahar]

here is my idea:

You seem to like the pavers idea, and I think it makes some good sense, but I worry that they could break and or still have some sharp edges.

sooo... you put the pavers down and then do a thin layer of sand on top, that would lessen the amount of sand you have to use, but provide you with similar protection as simply a large sand bed.

what do the experts think?

edit: I just saw brokenswords idea for the sides, that seems great!

Yes, if I can't find something suitable to use as cushioning, I think the sand atop the pavers might be a good option, and then use @brokensword's idea for the sides. I may also use the pavers for the sides in a few places (such as in front of the intake bay, where the sides are fairly steep).

I don't think these pavers are likely to break, as they've been kicking around for years, getting thrown from place to place and are still in good shape. Their edges are fairly well-rounded as well. They're seriously hefty too, which means they won't easily shift, especially once I lock them tightly in place.

Hopefully I'll know more next week, when I've had time to canvas the local building supply places.

 

[brokensword]

Yes, if I can't find something suitable to use as cushioning, I think the sand atop the pavers might be a good option, and then use @brokensword's idea for the sides. I may also use the pavers for the sides in a few places (such as in front of the intake bay, where the sides are fairly steep).

I don't think these pavers are likely to break, as they've been kicking around for years, getting thrown from place to place and are still in good shape. Their edges are fairly well-rounded as well. They're seriously hefty too, which means they won't easily shift, especially once I lock them tightly in place.

Hopefully I'll know more next week, when I've had time to canvas the local building supply places.

not sure of your exact situation, but you could make a 'slide' from plywood with 2x4/2/x6 sides to keep the sand contained. Wheel barrow the sand to your slide, then dump and let gravity help. I'm sure it would allow you to move more sand quicker and with less double work. Roofers do this kind of trick, except no way are they concerned if anything actually leaves the slide and ends up in/on the lawn; ask me how I know.

 

[YShahar]

I didnt know you had another pond in your past! got any pictures?

sounds like you have a solid plan!

I've got some pics around somewhere, though probably not on the computer. This was in the days before digital cameras, much less cellphones! It was a tiny, but disproportionally deep affair (about a meter in diameter and half a meter deep). I'd originally meant it to be the biological filter for the bigger pond, which I started digging the same year I put the little one in (around 2001). In some of my current photos, you can see the hole where the old one used to be off in the corner near the stream area.

I really enjoyed that little pond and the sound of the small falls that emptied into it. But over the years, the trees grew and it got completely shaded out and needed to be constantly cleaned due to leaves falling into it. When our not-yet-domesticated Canaan dog poked holes in the liner with his claws, I decided to retire it rather than fix it.

By that time, I had given up finishing the big pond any time soon, having reached the current layer of rock. At the time, I was busy with getting the kids through school, into the army, and out into the world. Plus my own career was still going strong and I was volunteering in three different police and military units. So some 10 years passed between my retiring the old pond and when I finally decided to tackle the larger one.

And then came the pandemic. Staring down at months of lockdown, I dipped into our growing overdraft and bought myself a high quality battery operated chainsaw and trimming system and set to work putting to right years of neglect of the garden. Once most of that was at least partially done, it was time to finally do something about the neglected hole taking up most of the garden. And the rest is history!

 

[GBBUDD]

baddazz granny love it

 

[YShahar]

not sure of your exact situation, but you could make a 'slide' from plywood with 2x4/2/x6 sides to keep the sand contained. Wheel barrow the sand to your slide, then dump and let gravity help. I'm sure it would allow you to move more sand quicker and with less double work. Roofers do this kind of trick, except no way are they concerned if anything actually leaves the slide and ends up in/on the lawn; ask me how I know.

You should see the contraption I rigged up to get the first two bags of river rock emptied into the front yard! it was a sort of metal slide resting on rails on top of the staircase. I'd fill an industrial sized rubber bucket with rocks, position it at the top of the slide and let 'er rip! It was vastly entertaining, even if it meant no one could get to the house without climbing over the slide. But I got 3000 kilos of river rock into the front yard and laid over landscape fabric to make a passable Japanese style garden!

I've already bought a 6 meter long sewer pipe to finish getting the river rock down from the neighbors'. I'll still need to buy another length of the stuff to hook onto it. Then I can shovel the rocks into a bucket and pour the bucket into the pipe to send it down over the neighbor's storage shed and into our back yard. That would work for sand as well, so long as I can get the bags dropped off in the right place. Still need to buy the other section and get it rigged up... Hmm...

A solvable problem, in any case. Just need to think outside of the box!