Let's talk liners and liner protection

[TheFishGuy]

I am really consistently surprised at how much of a problem herons and kingfishers are for people! I have never had the slightest problem with them, only racoons coming to knock some rocks to the bottom of the pond.

 

[brokensword]

I am really consistently surprised at how much of a problem herons and kingfishers are for people! I have never had the slightest problem with them, only racoons coming to knock some rocks to the bottom of the pond.

maybe you're just lucky they've never spotted your pond, tis all! I have a customer with a smallish pond, maybe 200 gallons and with a tree over it, lots of landscape around it, in the front yard and by the driveway; took 2 years for me to ever see a heron there. Emptied the pond (this was before I had MY pond). Since, I've seen it 2 more times, and after each, I hear from my customer his tale of woe, despite my net advice and urging. More or less feeding the heron now. And this is WITH a koi cave AND a large mass of pickerel rush. Guess this makes it easy for me to not have to explain how his fancy butterfly koi will never grow and live in such a small pond...

Herons and kingfishers aren't a problem...until they are.

 

[YShahar]

maybe you're just lucky they've never spotted your pond, tis all! I have a customer with a smallish pond, maybe 200 gallons and with a tree over it, lots of landscape around it, in the front yard and by the driveway; took 2 years for me to ever see a heron there. Emptied the pond (this was before I had MY pond). Since, I've seen it 2 more times, and after each, I hear from my customer his tale of woe, despite my net advice and urging. More or less feeding the heron now. And this is WITH a koi cave AND a large mass of pickerel rush. Guess this makes it easy for me to not have to explain how his fancy butterfly koi will never grow and live in such a small pond...

Herons and kingfishers aren't a problem...until they are.

Well almost all water birds we see here stop in only while migrating. We're on pretty much the only land bridge between Europe and Africa, so it's a bird watchers' paradise during migration season (and a major headache for aviation!). But no, where I live there aren't enough bodies of fresh water to attract wading birds. We see cormorants flying over a few kilometers to the west of here, over the Sharon plain. Some 10 kilometers southeast of here is a park around the source of the Yarkon River, and there are probably herons there during migratory season, as well as ducks. But where we are is pretty much limestone cliffs, home to goats, rock hyraxes, and crazy cat ladies wielding pickaxes.

 

[YShahar]

if kingfishers are as patient as herons, it won't matter 'hiding spaces'; they'll just wait until lil miss Y's fishies are innocently oblivious to air attack and...and...well, you know. Net, net, net; and with that bit of jungle YOU have, I doubt you'd even know it's there, if put high enough! You know that sound kingfishers make? Well, it suspiciously sounds like laughter...wanna know why they sound like that??? heh heh

Yep, I hear that sound all the time! And they don't just eat fish around here; they also eat insects, small mammals, etc. I may go with netting. Or may just make do with gambusia instead of goldfish, which judging from past experience, don't offer much of a target for kingfishers. The main thing is I need some sort of fish to eat the mosquitos, as we've had issues with Asian Tiger mosquitos the past 7 years or so.

 

[YShahar]

I am really consistently surprised at how much of a problem herons and kingfishers are for people! I have never had the slightest problem with them, only racoons coming to knock some rocks to the bottom of the pond.

I'm wondering how much of an issue I'll have with mongooses (mongeese?). We had a little family of them investigating my compost bin last spring, and I've since seen them in the neighbor's yard. I'm always happy to see them, as we have a real problem with vipers in the summer, and anything that eats those rather deadly beasties is OK in my book! Of course, I may find the vipers are also attracted to the pond, which would be rather unfortunate.

 

[TheFishGuy]

I'm wondering how much of an issue I'll have with mongooses (mongeese?). We had a little family of them investigating my compost bin last spring, and I've since seen them in the neighbor's yard. I'm always happy to see them, as we have a real problem with vipers in the summer, and anything that eats those rather deadly beasties is OK in my book! Of course, I may find the vipers are also attracted to the pond, which would be rather unfortunate.

I just did a quick search on the google and pulled up a thread from this very forum about mongoose, it says that they can and will eat fish, and that they will also swim..... not sure if that is true but it seems plausible.

 

[YShahar]

I just did a quick search on the google and pulled up a thread from this very forum about mongoose, it says that they can and will eat fish, and that they will also swim..... not sure if that is true but it seems plausible.

Yep, very plausible indeed! But you know what? If they'll keep the vipers out of the garden, and gobble up a few of them, then they're welcome to eat a fish or two! A viper bite can kill faster than you can get to the hospital.

 

[cas]

@YShahar I will never complain about moving rocks, soil and mulch around from my front yard to the back yard after reading what you have to do to get them to your yard! I would love to see pictures of this slope and the contraptions you build to help navigate it.

 

[YShahar]

@YShahar I will never complain about moving rocks, soil and mulch around from my front yard to the back yard after reading what you have to do to get them to your yard! I would love to see pictures of this slope and the contraptions you build to help navigate it.

Yeah, I'll never complain about doing routine garden maintenance after this either! Whew!

So here are a few photos from the Battle of the Rocks:

Exhibit A: One giant rock!

Once I got down far enough to see daylight under part of it, I decided to give it a few tugs with the come-along, just to see if there was any motion at all. So I rigged up the come-along to my "go to" sturdy tree, added a flat concrete paver and some underlay to prevent the cable snagging or fraying, and put a bag filled with rocks over the cable (so anything snapped, it would fly up and hit me).

Here's the setup:

And here's the rock...

Now, my come-along, webbing, etc. is all rated at 2000 kilo, and I gave it all I got, and...

Nothing. Well, that was pretty much expected, but I had to try. Had there been even the slightest bit of movement, I would have tried rigging up a hoisting tripod. But from past experience, anything that solidly imbedded must be a whole lot bigger than the part that I've unearthed. I dug down on the sides to see if I could see how deeply it's buried, and sure enough, it goes way, way down!

So I've reluctantly come to the conclusion that my giant rock is going to have to be The One That Got Away. My goal now is to get out any of the somewhat more manageable rocks that I can pull with the come-along (or just roll up the incline). At the same time, I've gone to work on The One That Got Away with a hammer and chisel, figuring that I can at least slice off the top of it so that it will provide a flat surface. It's turning out to be somewhat crumbly, though it's still going to be a lot of work. If my work schedule allows, I'll rent a demolition hammer next week to help with cutting it down to size. It would be awfully convenient if it would simply split in two, but there aren't any obvious break points, so that's probably not going to happen.

And so it goes!

 

[brokensword]

Yeah, I'll never complain about doing routine garden maintenance after this either! Whew!

So here are a few photos from the Battle of the Rocks:

Exhibit A: One giant rock!

View attachment 147766

Once I got down far enough to see daylight under part of it, I decided to give it a few tugs with the come-along, just to see if there was any motion at all. So I rigged up the come-along to my "go to" sturdy tree, added a flat concrete paver and some underlay to prevent the cable snagging or fraying, and put a bag filled with rocks over the cable (so anything snapped, it would fly up and hit me).

Here's the setup:

View attachment 147767
And here's the rock...
View attachment 147768

Now, my come-along, webbing, etc. is all rated at 2000 kilo, and I gave it all I got, and...

Nothing. Well, that was pretty much expected, but I had to try. Had there been even the slightest bit of movement, I would have tried rigging up a hoisting tripod. But from past experience, anything that solidly imbedded must be a whole lot bigger than the part that I've unearthed. I dug down on the sides to see if I could see how deeply it's buried, and sure enough, it goes way, way down!

So I've reluctantly come to the conclusion that my giant rock is going to have to be The One That Got Away. My goal now is to get out any of the somewhat more manageable rocks that I can pull with the come-along (or just roll up the incline). At the same time, I've gone to work on The One That Got Away with a hammer and chisel, figuring that I can at least slice off the top of it so that it will provide a flat surface. It's turning out to be somewhat crumbly, though it's still going to be a lot of work. If my work schedule allows, I'll rent a demolition hammer next week to help with cutting it down to size. It would be awfully convenient if it would simply split in two, but there aren't any obvious break points, so that's probably not going to happen.

And so it goes!

Got one word for you (AMTI insurgenceinsertion ) --- DYNOMITE! Wait, no, that was some expression from an old sitcom...



sooo, ran your whole dilemma past the OTG and a special advisor to the CAstle; the results were mixed amongst us doofs but the specialist had some pretty pertinent and succinct reactions; first, when we told him what you were calling your situation;

I'd say you more than piqued his interest but something about 'copyright', ya know? Okay, so then we showed him your pic and the come-along and well, the whole apparatus...he was much more complimentary, as you can see, but indicated what would happen if you asked him to get involved...

...and finally, when we TOLD him how you were going to compensate him for all his time, with pineapple pizza, well, THEN you got his attention! I think this last will keep you in the OTG's and HIS good graces! Very good, CamMaltGurl!!

@j.w and @Dimelius and Boss @addy1 have all signed off on the plan! Trust me, what they don't know won't hurt them! heh heh

 

[sissy]

I used rubber roofing in my upper pond waterfall pond and only was told by goodyear to rinse the powder off of it really well , they told me that they use different stuff to keep pond liners from sticking to each other when folded or rolled up by the company . put it in last year and let rain wash it off really good and used a brush to make sure it was clean since I had fish to worry about .

 

[TheFishGuy]

Much agreed, just call up the rock, he could probably help out.

 

[GBBUDD]

Ah, but we don't have herons hereabouts!

There are migrating herons up in the Hula Valley at certain times of the year, but in our area the most we'll see are storks. And they don't tend to go for fish so much. Our main fish stalker will be kingfishers, who tend to do their hunting from overhanging tree branches. I'll make sure to include plenty of hiding places for the fish, as the kingfishers made away with all of the goldfish in my old pond.

Now if I were up on the Golan, I'd be worried about predation from the velociraptor farms. But fortunately, we don't see those here either (remind me to tell you the story of how I once took a jeep load of our infamous Border Guards up to the velociraptor farms in the middle of the night).

you certainly are painting one heck of a lifes story out there i'm thinking you even got me beat ,

 

[YShahar]

you certainly are painting one heck of a lifes story out there i'm thinking you even got me beat ,

Now you've piqued my curiosity...

Meanwhile, may the adventure continue!

 

[j.w]

Calling the Rock to help I'm all for but putting Pineapple on his pizza will only slow him down. He will get a sugar high and bam down he goes in a few, and into the bottom of your pond all because Mr Kingy boy is addicted to it!

The Queen and the squire are looking into a treatment center for the king.

@sissy I used rubber roofing for my first pond and it was great! 2nd pond used the same kind but from an irrigation company. Still doing just fine. Same stuff as the pond kind. Just clean off the powdery stuff on it w/a hose and good to go.