I dont think you have to worry about losses when talking about the pump itself, I am assuming the pump manufacturers factor that in when stating the specs. Again I am no expert. I go back to what I mentioned yesterday when you look at the specs for pumps, a pump that handles 26' head is very strong, not really meant for 1200 gallons as @GBBUDD mentioned.
Installing my new Sequence 750 pump
- Thread starter miamicuse
- Start date
Just talking out my yapper flapper. A pump that is for my guess 15000 thousand gallons when you add 26 feet of head pressure is when your looking at 1200 gph not a pump that is specificly built that way, though you could.
I don't know to be honest I am a bit confused now. May be the manufacturer figured that into the specs. But then again, the Sequence pump could be used without the priming pot, so how do they spec it with and without the pot?
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2020
- Messages
- 3,293
- Reaction score
- 3,575
- Location
- Pacific NW
- Hardiness Zone
- 8b
- Country
How about something on this chart? Will the 1/2HP version work?
![Artesian2-HF-perform-14.jpg[img]](/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Fi.postimg.cc%2FBnRdPRTs%2FArtesian2-HF-perform-14.jpg%5Bimg%5D&hash=de366e1be5db955706b98a7e3c38e0e5)
I think that’s overcompensating. You want a pump that will deliver the flow rate you’re looking for in the middle 1/3 of the curve. That’s the sweet spot that will keep the pump happiest and use the least energy.
My pond is 1600 gallons. From my understanding I need to circulate at least 1/2 the volume per hour. So that's how I got to 1200GPH as a flow rate I target for...which is 20GPM. The 1/2HP version can do 46' of head for 20GPM.
Or should I be looking for something higher flow rate? The Sequence is 3600GPH with 0 head. When the head goes to 10' the flow rate drops to 1350GPH. I think I want a pump with an integrated pot though.
May be this one but again have to get a separate priming pot.
This one may also be over compensating.
I have to step in here do you have any idea how little 1300 gph is? that is a turn over rate for a 500 gallon tank the smaller the pond the more turn over is needed. yes by number it's 3 times but as a minimum you want 2 times turn over
My pond is 1600 gallons, so if 3 times per hour of turn over is needed, then my flow rate should be 4800GPH?
But looking at these pump curves, if I buy a 4800GPH pump, the rated "max head" is typically for a 0-2' head, the higher the head to overcome, the lower the effective flow rate. If I looked at the Artesian 2 curve for the 1/2HP model, it says it can do lift 30' head for a flow of 80GPM, which is only 480GPH.
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2020
- Messages
- 3,293
- Reaction score
- 3,575
- Location
- Pacific NW
- Hardiness Zone
- 8b
- Country
Catching up on the facts here. Yeah, for a 1600 gal pond, I would be trying to get at least 3200 gph out the end of the pipe. 50% turnover per hour only works once you're up into the 5000 gal+ pond size. Maybe larger.
I would be looking for a pump that will deliver 3200+ gph at 15' of head because everything you've described so far makes me believe you have more head than we think you do.
Pay little attention to the number printed on the side of the pump. If you want 4800 GPH and we assume 15' of head, then you want to look for a pump with a curve that will deliver that flow rate at that head height in the middle-ish area of the curve. So, the only thing you need to look for in terms of the number on the pump is one that is higher than 4800 GPH because the 4800GPH rating of a 4800GPH pump will, most likely, be at the very left hand side of the curve—0' of head. Also, most pump manufacturers are big fat liars with their curves, so it never hurts to go a little bigger even.
But here's another sticking point: 1.5" pvc is too small to flow 4800 gph with any sort of energy efficiency. Go look at those charts I linked again. If you wanted 4800 gph circulating in your pond without spending a massive amount of money on energy to push it through that little pipe, you'd need to be split the flow at least once and return it to the pond somewhere else. Or run a parallel line to send all that water to the same place, but in 2 pipes.
Tired of this yet?
I would be looking for a pump that will deliver 3200+ gph at 15' of head because everything you've described so far makes me believe you have more head than we think you do.
Pay little attention to the number printed on the side of the pump. If you want 4800 GPH and we assume 15' of head, then you want to look for a pump with a curve that will deliver that flow rate at that head height in the middle-ish area of the curve. So, the only thing you need to look for in terms of the number on the pump is one that is higher than 4800 GPH because the 4800GPH rating of a 4800GPH pump will, most likely, be at the very left hand side of the curve—0' of head. Also, most pump manufacturers are big fat liars with their curves, so it never hurts to go a little bigger even.
But here's another sticking point: 1.5" pvc is too small to flow 4800 gph with any sort of energy efficiency. Go look at those charts I linked again. If you wanted 4800 gph circulating in your pond without spending a massive amount of money on energy to push it through that little pipe, you'd need to be split the flow at least once and return it to the pond somewhere else. Or run a parallel line to send all that water to the same place, but in 2 pipes.
Tired of this yet?
Thanks, yes I am a bit disappointed and tired with this pump issue.
Some of these things = pump location, pipe route, pipe length etc...cannot be changed. The pipe size can possibly change to 2" but that would involve breaking the concrete edge because the prevois owner routed the pipe over the pond edge, but then in order to hide the exposed pipes, he laid another 8" to 10" thick chunk of concrete boulder over that. I don't want to bust all that up to change the 3' of pipe under that. So I am stuck with 1-1/2" pipes.
As far as flow rate, I know that typical recommendation is 1-2 turnover per hour. So minimum 1600GPH, desirable 3200GPH, even better 4800GPH, but I also need 15' of head but 20-30 will be better since I already wasted $800 on the Sequence pump and pot which can't be returned since it's not in "new" condition anymore. I will look for a pump whose curve is 3200GPH with a 20' head in the middle section of the curve. I do not see many pumps with this.
I guess another option is to go submersible and just abandon all these pipes. The $99 utility pump I have now can do a 30' head with a flow of 1600GPH, at 10' head it flows 1260GPH. I can use two of these to get 3200GPH flow and it will only cost $200 and I know that works already even with running through these long winding pipes (but with submersible I won't even be running these pipes).
The original set up was in 1992 when the pond was built. It was pretty much the same as the way I have it now.
Same long PVC pipe run, same pump location, same pond, same bridge, same concrete water feature. It has been 2 different owners since, and when I bought the place 4 years ago, the pump was dead, it was a pool pump, the last owner said they never turn the pump on, and the pond was a natural pond with half a dozen gold fish in it, living on the string algae, tadpoles or whatever in the pond, I have seen toads, frogs, crabs in it. I tried to get the pump working, but found that the submerged intake pipe was broken from a fallen tree limp, and there was no way to repair it without clearing the pond. Then the wood bridge fell apart (I was pretty impressed that it lasted 30 years). I cleared the pond end of last year and built a new concrete pier in the middle, then replaced the bridge, laid all new pipes and have them all tucked under the bridge to avoid tree limbs from dropping on them. I did have to run a new dedicated circuit for the new pump, and patched a number of places where nearby tree roots came into the pond to take nutrients and water.
You really have done a lot of work. The bridge came out great. I am sure you will get it working the way you want.
Thanks. Still hunting for the right pump but it's been challenging.