George Zimmerman Trial

[pecan]

Exactly.

And if folk would absolutely never take their firearms off their own personal private property, then I do not think gun control would be debated. However, this is not a world in which we live.

But that brings us back to driving on public roads being a privilage, the right to keep and bear arms is a God given right. They are not the same and should not be treated the same.

BTW, I always have at least one loaded firearm on me and one knife and have for the last 17 years. I actually plan my vacations around places I can and can't take my weapons. If I am driving I will drive around states with unconstitutional firearm laws, if I am going to a private business and I find they wont let me in with my gun, I don't go.

 

[crsublette]

Correct. This brings me full circle to say we do not live in a world of Gods living in the physical sense such as in greek mythology.

We do live in a world created by Men. We live in a Fallen world. We live in a world where emotion and paranoia and reason and trust and honor has relevance.


We have to be able to draw lines.


There is a point of theology that leads to the ruination of men due to the failure to draw lines amongst folk that disagree. This is why theocracies have the troubles that they have and I am glad we are not a theocracy.

 

[crsublette]

I love these conversations that lead to significant self reflection.

I could go on forever, but I think I might be getting on folk's nerves now.

 

[capewind]

LOL ... conversations make people think, even if it is only to agree to disagree at times. I have grown kids, ie nerves of steel...

 

[crsublette]

Capewind, so true.


Also, just to clarify my positioning here. I don't view the Constituion as a nebulous living document. I do view it as a theological text eventhough this interpretation of strict constitutionalism does dictate a gradation of apathy to the health and safety of society. So, to counteract this apathy, there are mechanisms the Founders wrote in the Constiution that allow us to act in a more grey subtext and allows us to create a subsection of government in our local government that then have their own constitution. So, I most defintely believe there is this grey area where you can be a strict constitionalist and still interpret the text to be properly applied in an atomic technological world.


It does take nerves of steel to be capable of drawing lines amongst folk that adamently disagree.

 

[Fishylove]

I think everyone here is doing a fine job of debating. Most forums at this point would have already been typing in all caps and have twelve exclamation marks at the end of each sentence !!!!!!!!!!!! LOL! It's nice to be able to debate things without people getting all huffy. I get that people are pationate about what they believe in, but this just proves that we are capable of hearing others and still get our own points across. And... Sometimes seeing their point at times

 

[waynefrcan]

I'm not worried this isn't big city USA. No random home invasions. Only ones we hear about are because of careless talk. EG, a jewelry dealer that kept his stock at home.

Welp, I just I hope you're not bringing a knife to a gun fight then. :fechten2:

 

[capewind]

One of the things I like about debates, is at the very start of most, there will be folks with polar opposites in opinions, yet IF you can keep the conversation going without it degenerating to name calling etc, we often find we are not as far apart on the issues as it appeared at the beginning.

 

[crsublette]

I'm not worried this isn't big city USA. No random home invasions. Only ones we hear about are because of careless talk. EG, a jewelry dealer that kept his stock at home.

Or... you might just have nothing that folk know about in your home to motivate them to do a home invasion against ya. Then again, crazies don't need a reason, thus the reason for calling them "crazies".

Then, I hope the jewerly dealer is never put into a situation in bringing a knife to a gun fight. :fechten2:

Good deal. Hope it never will happen to ya nor to anyone.

 

[Fishylove]

I agree with pecan to an extent. As I've said before, Taking guns out of the hands of people who uphold the law, just for the sake of trying to keep them out of criminals hands is ludicrous. As far as paranoia goes, I prefer to call this distrust. Now.. Don't get me wrong, I Love My Country. And...Call me paranoid if you want, but I don't TRUST our current government. As you said Charles, we are living in a man made world, let's call it society. The laws and bi-laws passed in the last 4-5 years, where the control that our government has and wants over its people; disguised as concern for the safety for its people, borders on socialism. And not just about guns.
The Technology that has been kept from us, just for the sake of keeping Money in the pockets of big oil, this is criminal in my mind. And let's face it, we all know it doesn't stop there. Maybe I'm the only one on here that see's a fall of government coming, and that's ok, everyone has their opinions.

 

[dieselplower]

But that brings us back to driving on public roads being a privilage, the right to keep and bear arms is a God given right. They are not the same and should not be treated the same.

BTW, I always have at least one loaded firearm on me and one knife and have for the last 17 years. I actually plan my vacations around places I can and can't take my weapons. If I am driving I will drive around states with unconstitutional firearm laws, if I am going to a private business and I find they wont let me in with my gun, I don't go.

Please explain how carrying a gun is a God given right. Not sure I agree or disagree, just wondering what that thought is based on.

 

[capewind]

How far back in time do you want to go? The Bill of Rights as adopted in 1791? The Constitution as adopted in 1787? The English Bill of Rights of 1689?

It was intended as a "natural right" (or as some would call God given rights, which differs from "legal right") to self defense and resistence to oppression.

 

[pecan]

Please explain how carrying a gun is a God given right. Not sure I agree or disagree, just wondering what that thought is based on.

When our founders wrote the Constitution, they did so for the purpose of listing our rights as humans that the government cannot take from us. Rights we are born with, just for being born, if you are of Christain faith as our founders were you beleive God creates everything, including us, therefore all things come from God including our fundamental rights. And if you believe in God and that God has given us these rights then only God can take them away.

 

[HTH]

I gaurantee you, if I were legally blind, I would not be and not even trying to farm. If I were legally blind, I would definitely have a foreman or farm manager. I actually know a fella that is legally blind and he does not drive and still farms since it is now done through his foreman and his wife drives him everywhere.

It is like Capewind's story with they finally have to revoke her MILs driver's license due to she was dirving and simply could not see well at all. I think the bar considered to be "legally blind" is set too high. It is unfortunate that it requires fatalities to these bars to be changed.

So... You are suggesting legally blind folk should be allowed to drive a car on the freeway ??

I am not but you do not have to be legally blind to be denied driving privileges! Many people with low vision have better driving records then their counterparts because they understand their limitations and the danger involved in driving much better then their 20/20 counterparts.

I just wish you would not use vision as an example in this context.

 

[capewind]

I am not but you do not have to be legally blind to be denied driving privileges! Many people with low vision have better driving records then their counterparts because they understand their limitations and the danger involved in driving much better then their 20/20 counterparts.

I just wish you would not use vision as an example in this context.

Just for clarification purposes, I looked up the requirement for legally blind ... 20/200 ... Blindness is visual acuity of less than 20/400

Now I do not care how careful someone is, I know my vision is not perfect at 20/30 without correction, but I see a LOT better with contacts correcting my vision to 20/20 ... I do NOT want to be on any public way with someone at 20/200!!!