Fish Not Eating

[Lisak1]

I only brought up the quarantine for future reference as something to watch for

I think good fish management is important. We don't have a QT because we bought all our fish at one time from the same source so they all went in the pond at once. The rest of the fish have been added "organically" if you get my drift. haha! We'll never have to buy another fish again, barring any major fish tragedy!

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Ah okay, Well I do not have Koi so maybe they are different that way. My goldfish love to eat and the only time they don't is when they were sick.

I have seen Goldfish in various clients ponds react the same way. If they are sufficiently 'spooked' they will avoid the pond's surface. That is not to say that they are not eating. There is usually plenty of micro-organisms available in a pond for snacking.

 

[Lisak1]

I think fish have their own "personalities", just like any other domesticated animal. But they also react to one another - if one thinks something is up, the rest respond with wariness. Which makes sense from a survival point of view to rely on the observations of your fellow pond dwellers.

That is not to say that they are not eating. There is usually plenty of micro-organisms available in a pond for snacking.

Yup - I've seen numerous goldfish ponds where the owners never feed the fish. The subsist on whatever they find on their own. And they do very well!

 

[Dave 54]

OK, I'm not a fish health expert, but according to the OP the fish were acting different within a matter of four hours. Unless fish parasites are the fastest acting parasites in the world, common sense would tell me that it takes a bit more time than that for parasites to A. spread and B. cause noticeable health problems. But maybe I'm ignorant of the super powers of aquatic parasites. I always remember "when you hear hoof beats, think horses - not zebras".

Hopefully I won't be run over by a herd of stampeding zebras some day...

We dont know the ponds filtration, its perameters nor anything because the OP didnt first read the rules then tell us . ,
Didn't know if the fish had been QT'd by the dealer.
He/she didn't QT them they went straight into the pond ,alongside the ones brough 3 weeks prior and we dont know if they were QT'd to start with, "I dont know about your goodself but these are all major red flags to Val and I".
As such we have to get as much information from the OP as you can including asking questions about things like symptoms that could equate to parasites
Val and I are not fish health expert Lisa and have never claimed to be , we only have 28 years experiance keeping koi this year.
We do however have a good track record with health related issues on this site so I hope this goes along way in counting alott ...
You have to look into every eventuality parasites included the fish may have had a moderate to high level parasite infection but without showing any sign's at all of an infection, you have to remember even our own ponds have them livinging in them (unless you use a UVsterilizer) has have everyone elses ponds.
If you dont believe me take a scrape of your own fish you'll see them in the microscope getting on with their own lives , living on our fish happy as Larry..
Parasites by their very nature are looking for any chink in a fishes defences to become a major issue....
Stress is a main factor in this.................
They then multiply rapidly dependant on water conditions, its temperature etc and coming from Malaysia I'd say its rather warm out there wouldnt you.... which would speed things up.
Plus any parasiites have had three weeks to do so, ( if you read the original post the OP says 2 months for the pond 3 weeks the fish) correct ?
It may well be that the OP wading about the pond has freaked the fish out , it could be water perameters it may well be parasites who knows we arent there
But when looking at things you have to do so as a whole , you have to look at everything ruling each one out, until you come down in the end with an answer to the OP's problem.......



Dave

 

[Alpravinosh]

Thank you everyone for the advice and opinions I will really take it to heart. I have still not got the test kit as my usual guy is out of stock. But a hope of good news!!!! My fishes are eating!!!! HOORAAY!!!! But I am still going to do my water parameter test. I think they were spooked. I did not soak my plants in any chemicals but I did wash them down and scrubbed the pots well. I am being positive for no parasites. To Dave 54. My pond is 1800 gallons with a stream. I am using a OASE biotec 5.1(filter), OASE Aquamax 6000 (pump), OASE Bitron36W (UVC) and a OASE Aquaoxy 2000 (aerator). Thank you for all your health and I am more convinced to my fish being scared. Thank you all once again, Thank you.

 

[Lisak1]

But when looking at things you have to do so as a whole , you have to look at everything ruling each one out, until you come down in the end with an answer to the OP's problem.......

Totally agree with that. We just have different approaches. My approach is to start with the very most obvious answer and work forward from there. I like to watch, wait, and observe while allowing things work themselves out. Your approach is to collect all the data and analyze it as a whole. But I have a garden pond full of fish that I enjoy - I'm not raising show quality koi as you are, so my approach may be a tad more laid back. I've also found that people who come from an aquarium background are more interested in water testing - my husband kept aquariums as a teen and he was the one who insisted on regular water testing when we first established our pond. I was the one hanging my head over the side of the pond saying "it looks good! It smells good! The fish seem happy!" as he was dipping up water samples.

What I like to share with people is that having a garden pond is a relaxing endeavor. When I was testing my water on a regular basis, I found myself constantly expecting and anticipating problems. In the case of A-B-C I was going to be ready to do X-Y-Z! I was always on the alert for changes in my fish and looking for issues - is that a red spot? Does he have a lump? Is that one swimming funny? Oy! It was NOT relaxing. The day I decided that my fish and pond were doing great without my vigilant attention was the day I really started to enjoy my pond.

Again - this is just me and my style of pond keeping. In fact, this is just me and my approach to life. I tend to be a pretty laid back person in general. I may wake up one day and find my fish have all moved on to a better pond with a more attentive pond keeper - that'll teach me! But so far we're enjoying each other just fine.

Having said all that I do see the point of asking everyone to provide the details of their pond before questions are answered. I wonder if @Ian knows if there is a way to require basic pond info to be included in a profile when a new user signs on? (Heading off to heed my own advice and include some pond basics in my profile!)

 

[Lisak1]

Very cool - I added a few details to my signature and it appears on my previous posts as well!

 

[Dave 54]

Thank you everyone for the advice and opinions I will really take it to heart. I have still not got the test kit as my usual guy is out of stock. But a hope of good news!!!! My fishes are eating!!!! HOORAAY!!!! But I am still going to do my water parameter test. I think they were spooked. I did not soak my plants in any chemicals but I did wash them down and scrubbed the pots well. I am being positive for no parasites. To Dave 54. My pond is 1800 gallons with a stream. I am using a OASE biotec 5.1(filter), OASE Aquamax 6000 (pump), OASE Bitron36W (UVC) and a OASE Aquaoxy 2000 (aerator). Thank you for all your health and I am more convinced to my fish being scared. Thank you all once again, Thank you.

Not a problem my friend we are all here to help one another, take away the lessons learned about water perameters and Quarentining your fish prior to them going into the pond .
It it is simply not worth the risk of introducing new fish into your pond without QTing them .
It will mean you build a smaller holding pond or use a small stock tank of a few hundered gallons with its own filtration system but your hard work will pay dividends in the end,
Plus you have the piece of mind knowing your not introducing anything nasty into your pond by way of parasites .

Dave

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Thank you everyone for the advice and opinions I will really take it to heart. I have still not got the test kit as my usual guy is out of stock. But a hope of good news!!!! My fishes are eating!!!! HOORAAY!!!! But I am still going to do my water parameter test. I think they were spooked. I did not soak my plants in any chemicals but I did wash them down and scrubbed the pots well. I am being positive for no parasites. To Dave 54. My pond is 1800 gallons with a stream. I am using a OASE biotec 5.1(filter), OASE Aquamax 6000 (pump), OASE Bitron36W (UVC) and a OASE Aquaoxy 2000 (aerator). Thank you for all your health and I am more convinced to my fish being scared. Thank you all once again, Thank you.

Glad to hear that it was not any discernible health issue. The instinct to flee from potential predation is quite strong in many animals. Fish actually alert each other to danger. Simply put, at the first sign of danger they release a chemical into the water that is sensed by other fish which triggers the 'flight' response. In a natural waterway these chemicals readily dissipate, but linger in a closed system such as a pond unless they are removed or diluted by water changes. Because this chemical trigger remains longer, the 'flight' response also remains longer.
The behavior of your fish was 'text book' 'flight' response behavior for a closed system.

 

[sissy]

Hey if a big monster was entering your habitat would you not run and hide .I would .

 

[Alpravinosh]

Thank you and yeah I would be petrified!!!!!

 

[Dave 54]

Glad to hear that it was not any discernible health issue. The instinct to flee from potential predation is quite strong in many animals. Fish actually alert each other to danger. Simply put, at the first sign of danger they release a chemical into the water that is sensed by other fish which triggers the 'flight' response. In a natural waterway these chemicals readily dissipate, but linger in a closed system such as a pond unless they are removed or diluted by water changes. Because this chemical trigger remains longer, the 'flight' response also remains longer.
The behavior of your fish was 'text book' 'flight' response behavior for a closed system.

However Meyer good things have come from this Alpravinosh from now on will remember to QT any fish added to his pond as well as test his water perameters on a regular basis.
They are valuable lessons learned easpecially in a KHV prelivant area such as the far east .
Speaking of KHV I'm currently buying a revised and expanded version of the book "The Cult Of Koi" from a chap here in the UK to add to our Library..
Now because I've been caught out with a seller sending me the wrong version of a book before, I this time being that much wiser decided to contact the man to ensure it was the correct version .
In conversation I asked why he had given up the hobby after 16 years , well it came out that this poor guy lost his entire collection of koi that he had built up to KHV from koi that had been pre Quarentined by his dealership.
He had bought from a very trusted dealership here in the UK who I cannot name for legal reasons lest they take me to court .
They after shutting down the business then deep cleaning and disinfecting all their ponds filters etc are back up and running again as though nothing had happened but the seller well the shock of what happened caused him to fill in his pond and give up on the hobby permanently "so very sad".
I cannot think of a better lesson to us all about QTing our fish, sad as this guys story is it shows what can happen in a worst case senario , he also added a photo of himself with his most favorite and first ever koi "Linford" who though nothing special had a place in his heart..

Dave

 

[Meyer Jordan]

However Meyer good things have come from this Alpravinosh from now on will remember to QT any fish added to his pond as well as test his water perameters on a regular basis.
They are valuable lessons learned easpecially in a KHV prelivant area such as the far east .
Speaking of KHV I'm currently buying a revised and expanded version of the book "The Cult Of Koi" from a chap here in the UK to add to our Library..
Now because I've been caught out with a seller sending me the wrong version of a book before, I this time being that much wiser decided to contact the man to ensure it was the correct version .
In conversation I asked why he had given up the hobby after 16 years , well it came out that this poor guy lost his entire collection of koi that he had built up to KHV from koi that had been pre Quarentined by his dealership.
He had bought from a very trusted dealership here in the UK who I cannot name for legal reasons lest they take me to court .
They after shutting down the business then deep cleaning and disinfecting all their ponds filters etc are back up and running again as though nothing had happened but the seller well the shock of what happened caused him to fill in his pond and give up on the hobby permanently "so very sad".
I cannot think of a better lesson to us all about QTing our fish, sad as this guys story is it shows what can happen in a worst case senario , he also added a photo of himself with his most favorite and first ever koi "Linford" who though nothing special had a place in his heart..

Dave

Yes, that is a sad story about your friend and a disastrous story about the dealership. What is even sadder and more potentially disastrous is that CyHV3 (KHV) may not kill all fish that are infected. These survivors become carriers of this terrible disease and it will remain undetected even in quarantine conditions, only to infect other fish when released into a pond. This is why when an outbreak is discovered ALL fish resident at the infected facility are usually destroyed. I say usually because there are likely countries that do not enforce this requirement.
I had a client experience a (laboratory confirmed) CyHV3 outbreak in her pond. They lost most, but not all, of their fish. It was determined that the source was a Koi that she had gotten from her sister's pond.
What has made CyHV3 so troublesome recently is that, at last count due to inevitable mutation, there were about 18 variants of the virus with mortality rates from 90% to as low as 20%. With the latter, it leaves the remaining 80% as carriers that should be destroyed. I suspect that this virus is actually more prevalent in Garden ponds that is currently believed and that the resulting mortality is being attributed to other causes.

 

[Dave 54]

Yes, that is a sad story about your friend and a disastrous story about the dealership. What is even sadder and more potentially disastrous is that CyHV3 (KHV) may not kill all fish that are infected. These survivors become carriers of this terrible disease and it will remain undetected even in quarantine conditions, only to infect other fish when released into a pond. This is why when an outbreak is discovered ALL fish resident at the infected facility are usually destroyed. I say usually because there are likely countries that do not enforce this requirement.
I had a client experience a (laboratory confirmed) CyHV3 outbreak in her pond. They lost most, but not all, of their fish. It was determined that the source was a Koi that she had gotten from her sister's pond.
What has made CyHV3 so troublesome recently is that, at last count due to inevitable mutation, there were about 18 variants of the virus with mortality rates from 90% to as low as 20%. With the latter, it leaves the remaining 80% as carriers that should be destroyed. I suspect that this virus is actually more prevalent in Garden ponds that is currently believed and that the resulting mortality is being attributed to other causes.

I tend to agree with you it being prelivent in garden ponds and would also go so far as tosay that the garden pond industry is a possible vector possibly the weakest link in the chain ,"we do not buy koi from garden pond centres full stop", but they tempt newcomers into our hobb with titles such as AAA koi carp who think they are buying something extra special which of course they are not .
Couple this with a lack of knowledge and deaths are mearly put down to the owner not the supplier , how many cases that go unreported I know not and many garden pond keepers in the UK are unaware that it is a notifiable disease and so they are binned or buried in the Garden...
Koi dealership's are now very KHV savvy and their is an openness nowadays when a dealership becomes infected . However here in the UK the Koi industry has banded together in an attempt fight back and to irradicate it :-

http://www.pkda.co.uk/about-the-pkda

However it is rife in the carp fishing world here in the UK blamed primarily on koi keepers but we believe it came about from the movement of prize carp from Europe to the UK as there have yet to be reports of koi caught by anglers , it is spread further by poor bio security by the anglers .
Wth each side blaming the other its never the twain shall meet and the virus keeps on spreading in the UK .
This Report into the virus you might find very interesting :-

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3850573/

There is also the Israeli koi industy's attempts at a vaccine however weve not heard of any one gong down this route so far UK wise .
KHV survivors I agree should in reality be destroyed however one of the BKKS's top judges when his koi became stricken with this dread virus couldnt bear to have his surviving koi put to sleep such was hs love for them so he built a new pond with filters and equipment that are permanently isolated from his other koi and practices a strict bio security .

Dave

 

[Meyer Jordan]

The Israelis have developed a vaccine that has proven to work but, like any other viral immunization, it is only effective on the particular viral strain from which it is produced. The other drawback is that this vaccine can only be purchased and administered by licensed veterinarians. This vaccine was for a limited time made available in the U.S. through Novartis. The Israelis pulled the vaccine citing failure of Novartis to meet contractual obligations.
With at least 18 strains of this virus known (others are sure to exist), eradication of this disease will be difficult. Adding to this difficulty is the fact that in some countries, the U.S. is one, it is not a reportable disease and biosecurity requirements are lax.
I am surprised that the individual that you mentioned was allowed to keep his Koi alive by the government. Elsewhere, the destruction of ALL exposed fish is mandatory.