Fish dead after treating pond with AlgoRem

[crsublette]

...cause oddly there are many customer's of products like these that do not have any dead fish issues at all...

...but...

...Instant gratification often interrupts customer due diligence...

...and that is what the problem is when comes to folk using these chemicals...

 

[crsublette]

THAT (my posts above) is why I tell people to think twice about using these chemicals....

...and this thread is an unfortunate example of it....

 

[crsublette]

If these manufacturers were to include a complete and accurate MSDS with every unit of product sold, a large majority of these types disasters could be avoided.

@Meyer Jordan , please cite a single MSDS, of any product for aquatic purposes, that would give instruction on proper product usage that would avoid these type of disasters.

 

[Harvey Schneider]

@Meyer Jordan , please cite a single MSDS, of any product for aquatic purposes, that would give instruction on proper product usage that would avoid these type of disasters.

An MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) contans only safety information. It would be most unusual to see instructions for usage on an MSDS.

 

[crsublette]

An MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) contans only safety information. It would be most unusual to see instructions for usage on an MSDS.

@Harvey Schneider ... Bingo!!

 

[Meyer Jordan]

An MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) contans only safety information. It would be most unusual to see instructions for usage on an MSDS.

This is very true, but the MSDS for a product does list (usually) any environmental toxicity levels. These are always left off any product labeling.
And, crsublette, you are correct that MSDS do not contain usage instructions AND a MSDS will provide no benefit to those that do not read usage instructions.
However, for those pondkeepers that do read instructions (the majority I will venture) a product MSDS can inform them of exactly what they are putting into their ponds and what the effects may be on other aquatic organisms. (Remember I am talking about eco-ponds). They may decide to avail themselves of other treatment options.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Here is the environmental information from the Algorem MSDS.

"12 Ecological information:
· General notes:
Water hazard class 1 (German Regulation) (Self-assessment): slightly hazardous for water.
Do not allow undiluted product or large quantities of it to reach ground water, water bodies or sewage
system."

"slightly hazardous"....how much more vague could this statement be?

The second sentence piques a little thought.

 

[crsublette]

Here is an excellent example of what people would expect from a MSDS for a professional aquatic algaecide product.

http://www.aquaticbiologists.com/media/4153/Phycomycin SDS 5_26_15.pdf
late edit : for wrong URL

...THAT is the most ya would ever expect from a MSDS...

 

[crsublette]

"slightly hazardous"....how much more vague could this statement be?

The second sentence piques a little thought.

Exactly.... so if your supposition is correct about MSDS and folk's due diligence...

...then just those statements alone (rather than a "more complete/accurate MSDS") should be just enough for them "to avail themselves of other treatment options." ...

Correct?

 

[crsublette]

http://msds.jcehrlich.com/MSDS/Aquaneat - SDS.pdf

Grrr... wrong hyperlink... meant to share the MSDS of this Lake algaecide product...

http://www.aquaticbiologists.com/media/4153/Phycomycin SDS 5_26_15.pdf

 

[Dave 54]

AlgoRem does have instructions you peal back its on the inside of the sticker on the back of the bottle you just peal the sticker back and read the instructions , it is safe to use as long as the OP and others who have had fish deaths follow the instructions to the letter i;e that you use it in the morning add extra airstones and at regular intervals check how your fish be they koi or goldfish.
Val and I have used it from time to time with no ill effects to our koi whatsoever.
Did the OP know the exact gallonage of their pond I'm wondering did the OP also add the AlgoRem with the solution mixed with pondwater in a watering can or pour it into the pond without ?
The instructions state you must pour the mixture all around the pond .
Many people do not seem too know their ponds exact gallonage and this is where mistakes often happen, not only with AlgRem but with all the chemicals we use on the pond [when a pond is completed it makes good sense to find the exact gallonage this can be done by buying a digital water meter via Amazon] :-

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gardena-81...68124138&sr=1-4&keywords=Digital+water+meters
.
This is the third inscidence I've read about on GPF this summer now either they are incorrectly using it , one used it in the evening the other didnt mix it with pond water before applying it to the pond , so I ask what mistakes did the OP make as they didnt find the instructions on the inside of the back stricker.
We are quite happy using this product and provided instructions are followed to the letter there should be "NO" fatalities
If we did not think this product safe we would not use it on our pond , do you think we would risk loosing our 30 year old koi and the answer to that would be "NO"

Dave

 

[Meyer Jordan]

AlgoRem does have instructions you peal back its on the inside of the sticker on the back of the bottle you just peal the sticker back and read the instructions , it is safe to use as long as the OP and others who have had fish deaths follow the instructions to the letter i;e that you use it in the morning add extra airstones and at regular intervals check how your fish be they koi or goldfish.
Val and I have used it from time to time with no ill effects to our koi whatsoever.
Did the OP know the exact gallonage of their pond I'm wondering did the OP also add the AlgoRem with the solution mixed with pondwater in a watering can or pour it into the pond without ?
The instructions state you must pour the mixture all around the pond .
Many people do not seem too know their ponds exact gallonage and this is where mistakes often happen, not only with AlgRem but with all the chemicals we use on the pond [when a pond is completed it makes good sense to find the exact gallonage this can be done by buying a digital water meter via Amazon] :-

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gardena-81...68124138&sr=1-4&keywords=Digital+water+meters
.
This is the third inscidence I've read about on GPF this summer now either they are incorrectly using it , one used it in the evening the other didnt mix it with pond water before applying it to the pond , so I ask what mistakes did the OP make as they didnt find the instructions on the inside of the back stricker.
We are quite happy using this product and provided instructions are followed to the letter there should be "NO" fatalities
If we did not think this product safe we would not use it on our pond , do you think we would risk loosing our 30 year old koi and the answer to that would be "NO"

Dave

All due respect, Dave54, but although this product may be safe for fish when used according to instructions, it is not stated to be safe for all other aquatic organisms. Many others have ponds to provide habitat to other than just fish. In these ponds it is paramount to keep all of the occupants healthy and thriving. Many of the products on the market today do not make a distinction between these two (2) major types of ponds in promoting their products. They should because saying that a product is safe for fish is quite misleading without clarifying that statement to include the product's potential effects on all other aquatic organisms.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

...then just those statements alone (rather than a "more complete/accurate MSDS") should be just enough for them "to avail themselves of other treatment options." ...

Correct?

It would certainly encourage me to look for other options.

A more complete MSDS would avail the reader of greater detail regarding the nature of the product..... good or bad.

 

[Dave 54]

All due respect, Dave54, but although this product may be safe for fish when used according to instructions, it is not stated to be safe for all other aquatic organisms. Many others have ponds to provide habitat to other than just fish. In these ponds it is paramount to keep all of the occupants healthy and thriving. Many of the products on the market today do not make a distinction between these two (2) major types of ponds in promoting their products. They should because saying that a product is safe for fish is quite misleading without clarifying that statement to include the product's potential effects on all other aquatic organisms.

Meyer AlgoRem is stated as being safe for fish and plants but not for sturgeons the problem here is not the product itself but the way it is applied to the pond .
The OP states

The container of AlgoRem that I purchased had NO instructions for use other than dosage - 50ml/1000 liters of pond water. I now have dead fish. All were mature koi. I am devastated and won't use this product again. There definitely needs to be clear instructions on the container.

All bottles carry instructions as previosly stated on the inside of the back sticker it clearly states before you use this product refer to the nside of the peel back lablel, es[pecially in soft water areas or following periods of heavy rainfallthe dosage instructions are as follows add 10ml to 200 litres [44 gallons imperial] of water , to get the best results AlgoRem needs to be mixed with the pond water warnings are as follows severe algae problems , In ponds suffering from severe green water it is important to remove the clumps of algae that form following treatment , this is to prevent the algae consuming Oxygen , which can lead to fish casping at the surface .
Soft water
In very soft water AlgoRem may cause the Ph [acidity] of the water to fluctuate , this can adversely affect fish causing them to gasp at the surface for these reasons do not use algoRem in ponds with a carbonate hardness of less than 3dh [degrees of hardness t goes on to say this can easily be tested using a Kh test kit , we recomend testing if you suspect your pond may contain softwater [instructions I have to follow because I'm in a softwater area even though I use Kusuri Lthaqua to correct my Kh ] it then gives you reasons for softwater such as your region revieving very soft tap water [as we do ] the pond has been filled with rainwater or heavy rainfall has been experianced and lastly the water in the pond has not been changed for a very long time .I wonder if the three people weve seen suffering losses can answer if they checked this or not .
In hard water areas hardness can easily be increased with a partial waterchange allowing for the safeuse of AlgoRem @Linda Schubert could you fill us in on what you did checked measured etc what gallonage your pond is not guesswork but acctual gallonage as I'd like to get to to the bottom of this and find what mistake or mistakes you made
@Linda Schubert being a koi keeper for the last thirty years or more my heart does go out to you "I might sound harsh but I'm not I'm just trying to get to the bottom of why three people have lost fish to this product yet when weve used it weve had no problems with it at all

Dave

 

[Harvey Schneider]

Here is the environmental information from the Algorem MSDS.

"12 Ecological information:
· General notes:
Water hazard class 1 (German Regulation) (Self-assessment): slightly hazardous for water.
Do not allow undiluted product or large quantities of it to reach ground water, water bodies or sewage
system."

"slightly hazardous"....how much more vague could this statement be?

The second sentence piques a little thought.

Having worked in government regulated industries (medical and aviation) I know that seemingly vague terms like slightly and moderately do actually have definitions. Unfortunately, unless you read the actual government regulation you don't know what that definition is. In the US, the cfr (code of federal regulations literally fills a library and finding the applicable documents can take hours for the uninitiated to do. Why all of this is cloaked in ambiguous terms and well hidden definitions, only the government and their industry allies know for sure.
All of this aside, quick fixes are often the cause of more problems. Unless the nutrient levels in a pond are reduced, the algae will quickly return, and if the nutrient levels are reduced the algae will slowly disappear. If the nutrient levels hadn''t gotten out of balance in the first place, the algae wouldn't gotten out of hand. Partial water changes and competition for nutrients by higher plant forms can do a lot to keep algae under control. Not over stocking your pond can do even more.