Creeping jenn

[crsublette]

There is no such thing as a "safe" algaecide. While Lou has used one for many years "safely" it should be noted that he has mosquito fish (which are very small fish) and not goldfish or koi.

Nishikigoi hobbyists also use algaecides, safely... and their fish are not small and are incredibly expensive... difference is nishikigoi relies on filtration, not plants...

@Big Lou has ALOT of plants whereas nishikigoi hobbyists generally do not have lots of plants... which is no problem...

Algaecides are safe when used according to directions.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

The surest way to keep your pond clear is with a good UV light. It's a small investment for a the benefit that it provides.

Another way to 'ignore' the cause by eliminating the symptom.

 

[mgmine]

Could be, but you can't argue with success. And since the symptom is what you are trying to eliminate what is causing it really doesn't matter.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Could be, but you can't argue with success. And since the symptom is what you are trying to eliminate what is causing it really doesn't matter.

Odds are that the cause will eventually matter.....to the fish.

 

[Lisak1]

@Lisak1 ... I think you and I actually agree more than we disagree on this

Agreed. I just feel so bad for pond owners who have so much stress over algae. And so often they are unintentionally doing everything to make the problem worse instead of better. Patience is in short supply. And I get it - our pond season is so short here that I wouldn't want to spend weeks looking at a green pond. But if you do it right and fix the actual cause you won't ever experience that again.

I've used sodium percarbonate every year on my waterfall to get rid of the string algae. It's safe, fast and effective. And every year I found I had to treat less and less often. So this year I decided to do an experiment and not treat the algae at all and see what would happen. (We will start seeing string algae before the ice is all off the pond but only on the waterfall - it doesn't hurt anything, I just don't like the way it slows the water flow.) I pulled it off by hand several times where it was diverting the water but otherwise let it be. And as of last weekend, it's all gone. So even I had to take my own advice and be patient!

I'll use SP in the future if I want to clean the waterfall up fast for a particular reason, but I've learned that my pond will take care of that "problem" too.

 

[Lisak1]

Odds are that the cause will eventually matter.....to the fish.

Exactly - the cause is what's important. It's like when you have a fever - you can take medication to reduce it, but that won't address the reason why your body raised the temperature. And sometimes the fever is the solution - not the problem.

 

[mgmine]

Odds are that the cause will eventually matter.....to the fish.

Again I will direct readers to this web site. If you want to be kind to the fish then sterilize the water to get rid of harmful things. At the same time be kind to yourself and eliminate the stress of green water.
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumUVSterilization.html

 

[crsublette]

Could be, but you can't argue with success. And since the symptom is what you are trying to eliminate what is causing it really doesn't matter.

I really want to "like" your comment... but I can't... since the "cause" is actually quite important...

A pond that eventually results into 300ppm nitrates or occasional ammonia spikes or growing phosphate is not something that "really doesn't matter"...

I'm fine with UV devices... as long as the primary cause is NOT ignored...

If a UV is used... then also plants and also an optional supplemental biological/mechanical filter will be necessary (dependent on plant density).

 

[crsublette]

Patience is in short supply.

@Lorri wants her pond to be enjoy NOW for her disabled daughter since apparently she believes it would help her daughter...

But if you do it right and fix the actual cause you won't ever experience that again.

Not true for everyone and so we all have to make compromises...

Some people like the aquarium look of alot of fish in their pond, some people want to have ducks or want to fertilize their pond so they grow very nice plants beyond what is typically seen... so there is a compromise to make this work and yet still NOT allow algae to hassle you...


I like options... I like giving people options...


We all do not have the same goals for our ponds...


Absolutely.. I agree... the "natural" way is definitely cheaper in the long run and @Lorri expressed concerns about the pond being a money pit... but this entails a compromising of goals...

 

[crsublette]

I think @Lorri needs to make a decision... does she want a fast solution or a cheap solution..

The "natural" way is definitely cheap in the long run, but this will involve a significant amount of patience.

The "fast" way is definitely more money on maintenance in the long run, but this will remove aesthetic hassles much sooner.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Again I will direct readers to this web site. If you want to be kind to the fish then sterilize the water to get rid of harmful things. At the same time be kind to yourself and eliminate the stress of green water.
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumUVSterilization.html

This is an excellent article on UVs. It verifies that most UV units are clarifiers, not sterilizers and that those that may be classified as sterilizers are seldom used correctly rendering them only clarifiers. Here is a chart from this article-

From this chart, Level one sterilization requires a flow rate of only 20-30 gph per watt, but also requires a turnover rate or 1.5 times per hour.
Level two sterilization requires a flow rate of under 8 gph per watt and a turnover rate of 3 times per hour.
Show me a typical garden pond that can conform to these requirements without purchasing a commercial sized UV unit.

 

[crsublette]

I've used sodium percarbonate every year on my waterfall to get rid of the string algae. It's safe, fast and effective.

@Lisak1 ...Personally, I absolutely love the color of rock... This color is removed once "nature" takes over by creating good, healthy periphyton (https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/periphyton-part-1.16255/).

Once more plants, more filtration, and a bog installed for my pond, then will be easier for me to maintain this lovely rock color.

 

[crsublette]

Yep, I agree with @Meyer Jordan as well ... expensive to achieve any level of actually effective sterilization plus there is the electricity cost. .... example list of UV sterilization devices (products from PentairAES http://pentairaes.com/emperor-aquatics-hobbyist-1)....

If the pond turnover rate is not high enough through the UV device at a slow flow rate for proper dwell time, then no point in trying to convert a small pond UV clarifier into a UV sterilizer since the bugs you are trying to kill reproduce quite fast.

Stick to using UVs as a clarifier .. that is primarily to remove "green water algae"... if there is a desire to use one...

 

[MitchM]

The problem here is that our ponds are NOT natural. If we left it up to Mother Nature our little creations would be a stagnant wasteland. So we add water pumps and design custom filtration and do what we can to allow the natural processes to actually happen. You need live plants to balance the fish waste, you need water flow to keep the beneficial bacteria alive and thriving, and when you can't provide these things directly you need to add chemicals to reduce the harmful effects...

I see a lot of people saying that our ponds are not natural, but nature is everywhere.
Whatever we set up outside or inside will develop the appropriate bacteria and algae populations over time.
Problems develop when we think our ponds are 1 way streets for all the stuff we put in them. What we put in, we must take out.

I have had a small 33 gallon tank set up for 10 months now with no water circulation or filtration, all I do is replace top up water, prune plant growth and feed the fish. It has not turned into a stagnant wasteland.
There are 3 ruby red minnows in it, a few plants and algae and a garden soil substrate.

 

[crsublette]

I see a lot of people saying that our ponds are not natural, but nature is everywhere.
Whatever we set up outside or inside will develop the appropriate bacteria and algae populations over time.
Problems develop when we think our ponds are 1 way streets for all the stuff we put in them. What we put in, we must take out.

I have had a small 33 gallon tank set up for 10 months now with no water circulation or filtration, all I do is replace top up water, prune plant growth and feed the fish. It has not turned into a stagnant wasteland.
There are 3 ruby red minnows in it, a few plants and algae and a garden soil substrate.

@MitchM ...Do you return your plant pruning material back in to the water and allow your minnows to multiply? This is what actually happens in nature... If this was allowed to happen... then your 33 gallon tank actually would be a stagnant wasteland of string algae literally suffocating the water, which also happens in nature.

There are always "externally introduced controls" that we are directly doing to our pond so to meet our specific personal goals... This is not natural one bit at all...

Yes, our ponds are neither more nor less than a small captive analogue of an ecosystem. It meets all the necessary requirements of a small ecosystem, and there are numerous natural ecosystems just as small. Is it natural? It most definitely is not... Can we use these natural processes to reduce maintenance? Absolutely, but this requires compromises and everyone does not want to make those compromises.

I think there is nothing wrong with that as long as folk actually understand what is necessary to do... one way or the other...


The failure of algae treatments is that people are not educated what they need to do AFTER the treatments... Pond stores do not want to tell hobbyists "what they need to do AFTER" cause the pond store wants to sell more algae treatments.

... and then... when people that have done algae treatments come to these forums... they are told they are doing everything wrong... which is not correct either...

I agree there is not a 1 way street of dealing with algae problems... this applies to both "naturally" maintained ponds and chemically treated ponds as well...