bog, trickle tower, best and/or both?

[crsublette]

I could acquisition a few hundred acres from somewhere though !! I don't know ... when ya gotta take a car or golf cart ride to travel to your pond so ya can enjoy it, seems like a bit much; then again, might not be. I live in a 80 year old homestead farm house that is surrounded by my equipment operations yard. Over the years, the house has been expanded and a few hundred trees (cedar elms, austrian pines, four wing saltbush, and much more) were planted around the house and operations yard; so, this has cut into my yard space.

Not gonna take the green route likes Addy's biodome setup there. :razz: I have never grown up in an area where it was always green, just doesn't seem right to me . I like the xericscaping, cactus, stream, rock art, and fountain approach instead of just have a single big pond. Somehow make a xericscape bog (sounds like an oxymoron ). I believe this is how I would build my good size pond. I keep on thinking about it with the size of my yard. I love to daydream.

 

[Waterbug]

Keep in mind that trickle/shower towers are much more susceptible to weather elements such as wind and cool temperatures. Wind will likely blow in all sorts of dirt and debris into the towers, and the towers open space for air travel will allow cool air to cool water much faster.

There is an issue with Shower filters when you start getting below 45F as it will cool the water faster. Same problem any out of the pond filter would have, but Shower filters create the problem faster. Most people shutdown their Shower filters for the winter just as for Skippy. Some people place their Shower filters in heated structures to keep water warmer, but that's not common.

When debris gets blow into the towers, then your bio-media material will clog up, causing channeling; towers can only breakdown so much debris until the debris finally overtakes the bacteria on the bio-media even with water running over the media.

I suppose it could be a problem if under a tree in the fall.

This is why I would have the water mechanically filtered before it goes into the tower and fashionably install a wind tarp to break the wind. I am currently working on my plans for a fashionable designed shower tower.

:claphands: Wind blowing water off of a TT or Shower I think is the main reason for tarps.

I think bogs are just awesome. Can't say why, but it just seems the natural way to go. Another project of mine is going to have a bog of some sort.

:highfive: Me too, but wouldn't want to count on a bog for bio filtering.

1) Skippy type filters are so very easy, simple to make compared to sieve filters, but ya lose quite a bit of water when flushing them.

Are Skippy filters now also considered a pre-filter? Sieve filters can be easy, or complex. Builder's choice.

3) With sieve filters, ya gotta have the angle just right and proper mesh material so the gunk slides off, and maybe multiple levels if ya want to get the really small debris.

:nono: You're making it way more difficult that it has to be. A horizontally flat screen will get you maybe 80% of the functionality possible, as debris will be pushed to the edges of water washing thru the screen. Pitch a flat screen at a angle and you get maybe 95-99% of the functionality. The curved shape of the Cetus is suppose to be optimal, but that doesn't mean other configurations don't work very well.

The multiple level thing is only an idea as far as I know. I've never read of someone implementing one. It's an interesting idea that I would like to see tried, but if I were betting I'd put my cash on fail or tiny improvement,

 

[Waterbug]

(keep in mind ammonia is still processed during the winter, though by different bacteria).

What bacteria is this? Never heard of such a thing. In cold water ammonia is converted to ammonium but no bacteria is involved.

 

[crsublette]

What bacteria is this? Never heard of such a thing. In cold water ammonia is converted to ammonium but no bacteria is involved.

From what I have read, psychrophilic bacteria, microbes, and other enzymes that nuetralize ammonia and nitrites while continuing the decomposition process of debris. From what I understand, just a different process used to continue the breakdown of debris and the resulting ammonia.

I suppose it could be a problem if under a tree in the fall.

Don't have to be under a tree for wind to allow dirt and debris to be blown into the smallest crevices anywhere. I don't have much wind break at all around me. When the wind blows, it blows and brings everything with it. I bet it will even blow small grasses, small leaves, and small twigs from tumbleweed type plants into it. I wouldn't put anything beyond what wind can gunk up.

Are Skippy filters now also considered a pre-filter? Sieve filters can be easy, or complex. Builder's choice.

I suppose Skippy is the incorrect term. I have seen some DIYs where the barrels are half mechanical filtration and half bio-filtration. Even though I know ya don't like their effectivenes, they do apparently work to an extent like my little combo mechanical / bio pressurized filter and work well enough to make a difference; of course, there is always something better.

I don't know. I guess all ya would have to do with a sieve filter is drill ledges into a box, where the screening material sets, at a proper angle so the debris sluffs off. Seems like to me there should be more to it if ya are wanting to also get all the finer gunk that other mechnical filtration is able to filter. Havinge one mechanical filtration for large debris and another filtration for the smaller, finer debris; meh, I would much rather have just one mechanical filter that covers it all. This is why it seems the rotary drum filter is perfect except they are not that simple at all; of course tho, then ya gotta deal with all the gunk that this filter deposits.

If sieve filter replaces a skimmer, then all that bigger debris gets deposited somewhere and seems like the deposited debris has to be dealt with somehow as well. My skimmer basket is pretty big, able to hold much, so all I gotta do is pick it up every 3 weeks or so and dump the debris in my yard trash container. Instead of re-inventing the skimmer with a sieve filter, I would much rather see the sieve filter do a better job somehow like the rotary drum, which seems to be outside the scope of a sieve.

 

[Waterbug]

From what I have read, psychrophilic bacteria, microbes, and other enzymes that nuetralize ammonia and nitrites while continuing the decomposition process of debris. From what I understand, just a different process used to continue the breakdown of debris and the resulting ammonia.

True. But I don't think it's at a meaningful level. Ammonia can out gas too in small amounts. So small it isn't normally considered a part of ammonia management. If there is some info on these processes converting a meaningful amount of ammonia I'd be interested. Everything I've read normally shows an increase in ammonia in the fall and winter.

I suppose Skippy is the incorrect term. I have seen some DIYs where the barrels are half mechanical filtration and half bio-filtration. Even though I know ya don't like their effectivenes, they do apparently work to an extent like my little combo mechanical / bio pressurized filter and work well enough to make a difference; of course, there is always something better.

They work, but aren't reliable imo. When clean they can work as a bio filter and then convert to just mechanical as it gunks up. If you need a certain bio conversion to keep fish alive these are of no use imo. If you don't really need the bio conversion...well, doesn't really matter whether it works or not.

 

[pecan]

I am only on my 2nd ponding year. But this has been my results.

Last year I just had a pump in the pond, pumping water into a pool at the top of the falls and out the falls back into the pond. 5000+ pond with no filtration, UV, or skimmer. I fought green water all year last year but had no issue with ammonia. That is likely due to the large size of pond and low fish load.

This year I added a second pump and 175 gallons of skippy filters that flow out into a very small bog and out the falls. I added many more bare root plants and I added koi this year. My water has been crystal clear and 0 maintenance.

I like simple and it seems to be working for me.

 

[crsublette]

I think the reason why skippy type filters and bogs are popular is because they're simple and less effort to make them look pretty, they work well enough for mechanical and bio filtering, and this is the reason why they're popular.

I also wonder if the size of the bog makes a big difference. Many bogs I have seen pictures of have been the equivalent to or slightly smaller in size to the accompanying pond. This is a ton of extra room just to have a mechanical filter and bio-filter, but they are pretty to look at.

Sieves, trickle/shower towers, and other options take a fraction of the room and some can be put completely out of sight without the need of vegetation to hide them. If ya implement them correctly, only takes a couple to a few minutes to maintain maybe once a week, maybe every 3rd week, or maybe never depending on how elaborate ya make them.

Often, the testimonials I read are coming from ponds that are very young, do not have a big fish load, and are doing stuff to the water to maintain its chemistry such as crushed oyster shells for soft water to raise KH or better/more bio-filtering for hard water to reduce the increased ammonia toxicity.

I kind of wonder how newly 1~3 year old established bogs versus 5~10 year old bogs perform without any type of purging, when fish populations start to grow. I also wonder how they perform when they are small, around 5% or so, the size of the accompanying pond.

"ok, awesome, everything has been smooth with my bog being the primary filter for everything" Then, when something goes wrong with fish regarding parasites and disease and the bog does not self correct itself then ... what are you going to do ??

I like bogs since they're pretty and useful at the same time, but, after everything I have read, I would not 100% rely on it to be my filter for everything forever. If something does go wrong such as parasites or disease, then I would also want to make it so that the bog can be somehow seperated from the pond so that it can be treated appropriately.

 

[addy1]

My last bog was around 8 years old, probably 5% or less the size of the pond, except for string algae in the spring it worked fine keeping the pond healthy, never had a parasite or disease issue, had a good fish load. The pond before that, I had for around 15 years, had two whiskey barrel bogs, for a pond that was around 5 k gallons, no issues, parasites, disease etc. Maybe I was just lucky.

My bog will be the only filtration, in 20 years I will let you all know how it is going. This is year 3, 150 plus fish, fry, tads, fish, snails a pretty good bio load.

It could be separated, just change the piping to a filter instead of the bog, easy

 

[JohnHuff]

I don't have a bog, but I've read here on several threads that bogs need to be cleaned out every several years. Why is that? I would think that bogs are natural occurrences and in nature, bogs don't need to be cleaned out.

 

[addy1]

I don't clean mine, even the past ones. The one whiskey barrel mini bog I had a bottom drain, would drain it once in a while, but even quit doing that.

Some say the gravel will clog, it will channel. I have not had those issues. So can only speak for what has occurred in my ponds and bogs. By those rules I should be cleaning mine this year (several years) this is its third summer, first year was dirt, construction, fish dying due to ph issues. Second year, fish / frog explosion, third year (this summer) still working great. Water flow throughout the bog, no dead spots.

 

[crsublette]

Very kool.

Welp, no reason to be concerned then. Sounds like the bog might be the "best filter in the world" hehe

I hope to have the same results when I eventually set my little bog up.

 

[crsublette]

This is year 3, 150 plus fish, fry, tads, fish, snails a pretty good bio load.

From reading your pond thread, says your main pond is around 8,000 gallons with a 2,000 gallon bog. just doing a little figure'n. If this is correct and ya got 150 fish, then each fish would have to be at least 11 inches long for this huge of a pond to be loaded, maybe even more since ya got a good low pH and maybe even much more due to the huge bog being a huge filter. From viewing your cameras, only a few of your fish look like they are anywhere near that big, but cameras can be deceiving.

I don't know. with that much volume, I would think it would allow some big volumes of fish until ya start noticing any problems.

Of course though, everything has its limitations.

Still makes me wonder if bogs are the final answer to it all. When something sounds too good to be true, normally they are. :dunno:

 

[brandonsdad02]

I just built my bog this past weekend and my water has went from being chocolate milk to clear again in 3 days of not messing with it. I had to add more pea gravel Tuesday so that stirred the water up again. Now I still have my skippy running but most of the water is going thru my bog which has almost 3,000 lbs of pea gravel. My plan is to remove my skippy completely once my bog is a few months old.

 

[addy1]

The fish aren't 11 inches long, the bog to pond size is around 1/4 or less of the pond. Last still picture fish count around 200, see some fry, so more coming, Tons of tads
Never know if you are going to have problems until it happens.

I did a lot of research for this build, for me working great. Never will I say bogs are the final answer.....lol, that is when shit happens. I just love mine.

I muck up my water every time I work on the lilies or the bog, it clears up within a day. The fish tossed out a lot of kitty litter when they did their first spawn, they didn't have any plants to spawn into. So now the bottom is covered by kitty litter, makes little clouds when I walk in the pond.

 

[Waterbug]

I fought green water all year last year but had no issue with ammonia. That is likely due to the large size of pond and low fish load.

:nono: Algae consume ammonia directly.