BOG IDEAS & INSIGHT NEEDED (PICTURES, TOO....)

[capewind]

When all is said and done, I dont mind WBs over thinking, as he DOES make us think more, and I would rather hear something over thought, then see someone not think enough. I just think (my opinion only) he was wrong on the product I was mentioning. Again tho, I am coming at them from a PROFESSIONAL stand point, and not as a DIY. From a PROFESSIONAL stand point, I can see issues with both your bog (which I really like), as well as your wall. Neither will stand LONG TERM without help. Landscape timbers are pretty, but we try to talk clients out of them... no matter how well they are done, wood rots... The blocks you have, a lot of folks use them, easy for a DIY project, but you would be hard pressed to find a professional willing to work with them. At low heights, they should be fine for a number of years. You can see water coming through at the corner, so that tells me that it was not backfilled to encourage proper drainage, that alone will take off the life of the blocks, as well as present an oppurtunity for the blocks to shift over the long term. They are small and light weight, so not a big deal to have to fix them. From a professional stand point, you want the quality of your work to shine, and NOT get called back for repairs that could have been avoided It's all a wash... what you want to pay for in both time and materials...

 

[brandonsdad02]

You are right about the bog. I figured that it will last about 5 years or so. By then, we should be in the position very we have some land in the country and I will be able to build the pond of my dream and will be able to have the bog part of the pond build, not a after thought. At the corner of the wall, there is drain tile at the bottom that is tied into the drain tile around the outside of the house. If I remember right, those blocks were bought from a local landscape business. I think for what we are doing with them, they will be ok.

I totally agree with you from the professional aspect point of things. I would never build a bog out of landscape timbers if someone was paying me for the work being done. That was just the best that I could come up with while on a budget and trying to make it look like it was planned the whole time.

 

[Waterbug]

 

[Mmathis]

When all is said and done, I dont mind WBs over thinking, as he DOES make us think more, and I would rather hear something over thought, then see someone not think enough.

Agreed! And I do appreciate that WB takes the time to EXPLAIN things, and has taken the time to do the research [and sometimes R & D] into why things work the way they do [or don't work, depending on what it is]. I personally gain lots of insight from his and others' posts, and am grateful to have a forum like GPF where folks can talk and discuss ideas, opinions, etc.

 

[capewind]

WB, waste of time? Really? Corners require specific engineering??? Only IF you IGNORE their specifications??? Hmmm... I wonder why Keystone MAKES CORNER BLOCKS??? Are they setting themself up for a lawsuit here??? Are you looking at their basic walls, or their STRUCTURAL WALLS? From the get go I have referenced the Keystone Compacs. Is this what YOU are looking at???

if you DID have experience with this product, you would know the product a bit better. Clearly you are NOT reading ALL of the specs and are missing something somewhere. Not my job to educate you, I am only telling you that YOU ARE WRONG.

One of the things I DID state earlier was in references to ME, not being sure of at what height geogrid would be needed, as it is my husband that installs them. Take a look at this wall, and THE MANUFACTURER'S comment in regards to MAX HEIGHT with GEO GRID REINFORCEMENT.

Here;s a QUOTE...

"The improved geometry of the Keystone Compac Unit allows for
easier installation and increased connection strength with geogrid
reinforcement. This unit allows for various positive connections
with reinforcement to build walls in excess of 60 feet tall.* Units are
interlocked with high-strength fiberglass units.
*Based on design by a professional engineer."

http://www.keystonew...S_CompacIII.pdf

GRANTED, they DO mention a PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER IN EXCESS OF SIXTY FEET, but since very few homeowners would want/need something into this size range, it surely demonstrates the EXTREMES this product is designed to handle. Your OPINION of 2' is INCORRECT, even for something as simple as a bog! I have to wonder if you are getting CONFUSED by how many courses need to be BURIED based on HIGHER heights???

YOU are the one who is making inaccurate statements about something you clearly have limited knowledge about. Just because you read SOME specs does not mean you have a clue in which you are talking about with this product.

Furthermore, in the case of a LINER for a BOG or POND, when the liner is sandwiched BETWEEN the TOP BLOCK, and the CAP BLOCK, you are effectively creating an ADDITIONAL structural element SIMILAR to a LAYER of geogrid (clearly not at the same strenth).

By the way... I am not "pissed off" as you put it. It amazes me that someone of your intelligence level can do a LITTLE bit of reading, and THINK you have a clue what you are talking about. You need to do a bit more reading on this one WB. I truly respect your opinion on many subjects, but on this one you are COMPLETELY WRONG.

 

[brandonsdad02]

I like Mt. Dew

 

[capewind]

And here is an important difference. You werent expecting it to last a lifetime, and understand wood will rot over time.

>

That will be great when you can do it



I am understanding what you are describing, but dont do that here... or maybe some do, and I am just used to hubby's standard procedures when it comes to walls in general (even the old fashion 6x6" tie walls done in the past)... he wants good drainage along the whole thing, not just in certain areas....



Maybe they tore them out of a yard? Or a maybe this landscaper was more of a jack of all trades? Hubby has saved a number of items from removals during a project. Here, those style blocks are used mostly by homeowers because they are easy to use...




It has been a long time since hubby has done much for tie work professionally, as he does try to talk folks out of it, BUT if someone still wants it, after he has given all the options, he would still do it. More and more people are going with the blocks instead. A 30-40 yr pressure treated tie (6 x 6") is only going to last 15 years or so, before they start failing or look bad. The block DOES cost more, but they dont rot.

>

There was nothing wrong with your choice AS LONG AS you had realistic expectations. Many times over, most people will make due with what is available to make something happen. Ya just do the best you can with what you have at times. Simple fact of life.

 

[capewind]

WB, I was going to let this go, but it DID get under my skin that someone who can make such intelligent/clear explanations on other subjects could make such ludicrous statements here.

Under LANDSCAPE WALL products:

*From a quick glance THESE walls (the first 8 from their drop down menu) fit into your statements. These are LANDSCAPE ACCENTS, and NOT products we use or promote. Nice items for a DIY, but again, as ACCENTS.

Canyon Ridge: 24"
Sedona Stone: 12"
Garden Wall: 24"
Insignia : 24"
Flagstone: 22"
Legacy Stone: 36" w/note to contact rep for higher
Mini Unit: 24" w/note to contact rep for higher
Country Cottage: 18"

You can go back to each photo I have posted in this conversation, or have used the word STRUCTURAL and see that I am referring to the Keystone COMPACS, which are listed under the STRUCTURAL WALL PRODUCTS section of their site.

I am ONLY addressing this so those who may have been interested in using this type of product have CORRECT information, and are not confused by YOUR incorrect statements. No folksy gut statements as you put it, on my part, but FACTS.

Half cock statements like yours is why people like my husband wont give the time of day to a hobby chat board, and stick to the professional chat groups. Yet when I noticed someone on here who was local to us who needed a bit of help, he offered to swing by and tell them HOW to fix their own problem for FREE because he is like that.

YOU make comments of whom you have worked with in various trades who dont know anything about their trades. If you were implying my husband, you are barking up the wrong tree. MY pond knowledge is lacking. I was never interested in the technical end, only the pretty end, and have a LOT of gaps in my knowledge. I do have a specific reason for wanting to know now, and not years ago, but that is irrellevent. It is easier for me to ask questions and learn on a hobby site, then to constantly ask my husband to "dumb it down" to simple terms.

For years, the area nurseries have tried to get him to come in to give pond seminars. He refuses, as he will NOT do it for their reasons, which is to promote sales of the products they carry. He works in the best interests of the client, not the retailers.

Did you ever wonder why someone would have a 750 gallon pond in their basement for nearly four years, yet only a newly constructed pond outside? That doesnt make a lot of sense does it? Common sense would suggest there is a lot more to that one huh?

Anyways, I am done with my ramblings. as you seem to have an obstinate resistance to facts.

 

[DrCase]

It looks like if we use half the information from every one we will be able to make a wall that will stay up

 

[capewind]

It looks like if we use half the information from every one we will be able to make a wall that will stay up

I am out of likes:-(

 

[Mmathis]

I didn't know you could run out of "likes." Can you, really?

 

[capewind]

I didn't know you could run out of "likes." Can you, really?

After liking too many things, I get a pop up that says "

You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day"​

 

[Mmathis]

After liking too many things, I get a pop up that says "

You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day"​

Ahhhh, I see -- guess I've not been there yet. But it resets daily? Not too bad.

 

[DrCase]

When i made my 2 ft high raised pond i did pour a footing ,used rebar in the blocks, block webbing in between course, filled the blocks with concrete
It could be over kill , i didn't want any movement during freezes

 

[capewind]

When i made my 2 ft high raised pond i did pour a footing ,used rebar in the blocks, block webbing in between course, filled the blocks with concrete
It could be over kill , i didn't want any movement during freezes

I have nothing against overkill... if someone wants to spend extra time and money trying to be safe, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that in my view. I dont know personally if what you did was extreme or not, I have no idea what type of block that you used. IF it was something like a basic cinder block, I would be using rebar as well... For the footing, I would think the actual material used would depend on what the soil is like there. HERE, we have a good mix of soil that percs pretty well, or sand which leaches exceptionally well, but for the most part, would use a 3/4" gravel for both the footing, as well as backfill AT the wall... That way you can channel water away french drain style... I know some areas in the south have a nasty red clay, but dont know if a solid footing that could take pressure, or something that leaches well like gravel, would be better... thankfully we have very little clay... my knowledge of working with clay is to never backfill a foundation with it, and if you are doing a septic, clay will cause it to be an over dig and would need to bring in sand to replace with... my clay knowledge literally ends there...